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[Music]

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this hope radios for the masses

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headliner believe July 8 1947 the Army

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Air Forces has announced that a flying

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bear has been found and is now in the

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possession of the RA the game easily

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changed the game game changer I

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occasionally think how quickly our

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differences worldwide would vanish if we

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were facing an alien threat from outside

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[Applause]

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this is fade to black with your host

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Jimmy Church on the game changer radio

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network and KCRA the global radio

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we need your help to get to the year

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[Music]

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you're listening to fade to black with

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Jimmy judge on the game-changing network

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[Music]

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good evening fade to black

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this spoke radio for the masses

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today's Monday October 7th 2019

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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281 days into the new year just 84 days

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left we are live from a bunker somewhere

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in the middle of beautiful downtown

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Burbank California and I would like to

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welcome everybody listening all around

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the world all across the United States

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hither and thither to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west north

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and south far and near this is fade to

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black for kjc are the game changer

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Network and K GRA the planets I am your

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host Amy Church what is cracking

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everybody how you doing

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what an amazing week we've got coming up

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kicking it off tonight on this monday

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jacques valet and alan stivell minh they

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are both here to discuss their new film

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it is called witness of another world

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alright welcome back

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fade to black IM your host jimmy church

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tonight's allen's timpleman is here with

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jacques ballet tomorrow night on the

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show right here Michael lead he'll

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Wednesday night it is Caroline Korie and

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her new film super human Thursday night

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is fate or night open lines all night

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long and then I'm over at coast to coast

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this weekend alright tonight our guests

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are choco la and Allen's divil Minh

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Allen is the director of the new film

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witness of another world

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it's an emotional story of a gaucho who

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at the age of 12 had a supernatural

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encounter that changed his life forever

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it was premiered in cinemas in Spain

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Paraguay and Argentina being the most

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watched documentary of the year the film

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rights were then acquired by 1091 media

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formerly known as the orchard and it's

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going to be released in a couple of

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weeks on October 22nd witness of another

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world features jacques valet now dr.

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valet who brings vast experience and an

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international reputation to the subject

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of UFOs met Juan back in 1980 in

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Argentina shortly after his experience

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and the movie shows their emotional

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reunion 35 years after the initial

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investigation now regarding the movie

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Jacques says this is the only case the

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only case in the history of ufology in

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which a witness has been studied twice

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at some 40 years time difference with

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his life and the impact of the

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experience documented fully but beyond

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that it demonstrates the mistakes we in

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the United States have made in our

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methodology and it opens up a way to a

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new much richer era of international

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research and I would like to welcome to

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fade to black for the

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time allons divil Minh Alan welcome to

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the program how are you thanks for

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having me yeah thank you and I would

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like to walk him to fade to black also

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for the first time dr. Jacques Vallee

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Jacques good evening

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it's a pleasure I look forward to

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discussing this movie it's an

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extraordinary film and I'm gonna say

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that so many times tonight and I'm gonna

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try not to be a fanboy but before we get

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to that for the both of you you get the

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first-time guests disclaimer so let me

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get that out of the way this is this is

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just the three of us sitting on my couch

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having a conversation as friends and

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where that conversation starts it starts

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and where it ends it ends but we're

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gonna end as friends there you go that's

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the the next time the both of you are on

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the show you don't get the disclaimer

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so they it's about time it's about time

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so welcome to the program and Alan I'm

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gonna start with you because I have the

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same question for Jacque but I'm going

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to start with you this case goes back to

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1978 and the his story and I'm talking

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about what his story is is just

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incredible you know from start to finish

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but how did you find the case I remember

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when I first read about it and in 78 but

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how did you find out about the case I

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was writing a script in 2010 I was doing

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like automatic scripture and then I

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realized that it was writing a story

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about an abduction but that time I

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didn't know nothing about the UFO

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phenomenon nor the abduction phenomenon

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I was mainly focused on ancient

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civilization research of what is what is

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below earth oh I was not mainly focused

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on those kind of mysteries rather than

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looking at the scars and see what is

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beyond the stars

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so when I when I found out that I was

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right in this kind of story I started to

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make some research buying some books and

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one of these books

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it's about abduction cases in Argentina

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and ten pages were about one first case

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it was written by a psychiatrist from

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Argentina doctor Nestor Burlando and

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when I was showing my previous movie

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mono in in the cinema in Rosario is a

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city near Buenos Aires four hours away

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from Buenos Aires in in the cinema

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it was the author of the book and I was

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grabbing this book while I was speaking

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to the audience because on the bus I

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wanted to read something so I got I got

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this book and and then I read it when we

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meet each other we all realize that it

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was not like it wasn't by chance and

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then we decided to have a lunch the next

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day and at his house he started to talk

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him to talk about the one per state that

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it was one of the most significant cases

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that he ever research and she showed me

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a video a very small video that it's on

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the movie that is it was one in front of

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a big audience talking about his case

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when he was 18 years old and he couldn't

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he couldn't started to speak about his

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case because he thought that no one is

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going to believe him and then I realized

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that it was my first time that I was in

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front of someone who had an encounter

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with the unknown with the supernatural

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and I wanted to meet him and three

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months later we I am dr. miserable ganda

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went to the countryside and I make one

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and when I meet him I was shooting with

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my camera and the first words that he

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gave to me was about his case about his

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dreams and then he started to cry and I

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couldn't a

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recording and then I remember that I

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just sat down next to him and tried to

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see what happened to him and four years

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after we did this movie and this is what

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we need to do here

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shock is to establish what what actually

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was happening in that one was living

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alone with his family he was a Gaucho

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living on a ranch very remotely and and

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for you shocked when we look at cases in

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you know pop culture where here in the

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United States we have access to mass

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media or we have access to television

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programming or books and we can we can

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be maybe polluted right in in what we

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are witnessing and what the experience

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is but in Juan's case he didn't have any

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of that and for you as a researcher that

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just must have floored you that it's

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almost impossible to find a witness or

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in somebody in an abduction or et

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experience that hasn't been contaminated

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right that's true and I met one when

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when he was 14 so that was two years

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after his experience and the way the way

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that happened is that I had I had met a

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number of researchers from South America

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at a series of conferences including

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conferences in in Mexico that I

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participated in and I met a leader of

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UFO research in Argentina named Fabio

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Serpa and fabulous ARPA was was a

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historian he was very well organized he

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had a team with him and he invited me to

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lecture in Argentina in 1980 and he

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wanted me to lecture in Spanish

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in five different cities in Argentina

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now you have to realize and I think this

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is something that is important to point

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out for an American audience Argentina

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is equivalent to the size of Europe it's

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a very large country and it has you know

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a sizable population that the different

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provinces are very different culturally

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and to me what was fascinating was the

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opportunity to to visit you know these

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five cities and to meet people who were

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doing research in those different

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provinces and so I I made a deal with a

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fabulous elba saying okay you know we

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can we can go to these five cities but I

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want to have a day a free day at every

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place so that I can meet people who are

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doing research in those areas and that's

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how I met Juan because we we gave a

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lecture in the far north of Argentina

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close to Uruguay and a province called

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and clay reals which is very flat very

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very isolated very rightly poor mostly

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agricultural with a number of farms or

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estancia's and the people we met there

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the researchers there told us that they

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were number of reports in the area and

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they had organized a meeting with the

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family of one now one was then 14 and

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this was something I will always I will

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always remember I mentioned it in one of

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my books that in fact has been

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translated into into Spanish it was

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remarkable we were invited by

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I met his father I met his mother who is

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a full-blood Guarani Indian I met his

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siblings brothers and sisters and we had

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a big lunch and everybody was there and

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the child was very quiet very serious

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my wife Jeanine was with me at the time

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as you may know I understand Jeanine

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about 10 years ago but she was a child

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psychologist and the teacher of Juan was

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there at the lunch as well so she had a

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chance to ask you know about you know

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about the horns work and in school and

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and his level of intelligence and his

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level and this was an extraordinary

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experience it was a beautiful shy

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beautiful family and what of course what

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he had seen was extraordinary and that's

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what you will see in the film that Alan

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has reconstructed very very well so I

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went away with that experience with a

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few pictures I took and we visited the

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site and then I wrote about night I

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never forgot that case and then he rose

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three years ago I get a message on names

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on that from Alan who says I'm doing

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this movie I've done a movie before

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cause Romano about the traditions of

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Indians in Argentina and the mysticism

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associated with it but I've met this

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young man that you write about in your

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book and I can I come to San Francisco

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and interview you about about him

274
00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:50,320
because it's it's a unique case and I

275
00:15:56,070 --> 00:15:52,750
don't know what to think about it and I

276
00:15:59,100 --> 00:15:56,080
told him well do you know that there

277
00:16:02,160 --> 00:15:59,110
were three other cases the same week in

278
00:16:03,870 --> 00:16:02,170
the same town of Venado Tuerto witches

279
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:03,880
that

280
00:16:14,999 --> 00:16:12,639
other cases he thought it was something

281
00:16:18,439 --> 00:16:15,009
like maybe like a dream or like a

282
00:16:24,059 --> 00:16:18,449
magical experience of just you know an

283
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:24,069
isolated child and I said you know and

284
00:16:32,249 --> 00:16:28,690
he described to me that Alan that one

285
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:32,259
was living alone had been away from his

286
00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:36,610
family was living in a nice elated farm

287
00:16:46,889 --> 00:16:41,500
house and was you know in a very

288
00:16:49,889 --> 00:16:46,899
distraught state and I thought if I went

289
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:49,899
there and I reconnected with him that

290
00:16:56,939 --> 00:16:53,199
might help him it might help helping

291
00:17:00,059 --> 00:16:56,949
psychologically it would be an emotional

292
00:17:02,519 --> 00:17:00,069
experience for me of course because it

293
00:17:06,329 --> 00:17:02,529
would reconnect me with the time when I

294
00:17:09,569 --> 00:17:06,339
was there and met that family and I

295
00:17:14,909 --> 00:17:09,579
suggested that you know that I come to

296
00:17:19,140 --> 00:17:14,919
Buenos Aires and that we organize a sort

297
00:17:23,309 --> 00:17:19,150
of free reconnection with the case Alan

298
00:17:25,740 --> 00:17:23,319
liked the idea and that's what what the

299
00:17:28,190 --> 00:17:25,750
movie is showing Jacques I wanted to ask

300
00:17:31,770 --> 00:17:28,200
you you know what one of the obvious

301
00:17:35,159 --> 00:17:31,780
questions but for you as a researcher

302
00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:35,169
where you have been looking into not

303
00:17:40,110 --> 00:17:37,990
only the UFO and et question but

304
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:40,120
different aspects of what could actually

305
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:42,970
be going on you've heard just about

306
00:17:47,460 --> 00:17:44,770
everything and seen just about

307
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:47,470
everything then you have this case of

308
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:51,970
Juan Perez where you must have looked

309
00:17:57,539 --> 00:17:54,850
around you and said to yourself and I'm

310
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:57,549
not being cavalier shocked and this is a

311
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:01,360
big yeah that you had to look around and

312
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,460
go well he didn't go see Close

313
00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:05,200
Encounters of the Third Kind at the

314
00:18:10,649 --> 00:18:08,049
local theatre right he doesn't have

315
00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:10,659
access to this but there are things that

316
00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:13,240
he's talking about here that could only

317
00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:14,980
have come from

318
00:18:20,159 --> 00:18:17,470
an actual experience did you ask

319
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:20,169
yourself those questions yes yes of

320
00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:25,600
course and what was important you know

321
00:18:31,020 --> 00:18:27,700
people think of me as a theoretician

322
00:18:33,539 --> 00:18:31,030
because I know I've was trained in

323
00:18:36,659 --> 00:18:33,549
astronomy I've done a lot of computer

324
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:36,669
stuff and looking at statistics and

325
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,650
everything else and AI but I've spent a

326
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:43,360
lot of time in the field and that's

327
00:18:48,990 --> 00:18:46,330
really you know both in in Argentina

328
00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:49,000
I've gone there twice I've gone from

329
00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:52,270
times to Brazil to different places in

330
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:56,049
Brazil I've got to rush off six times

331
00:19:01,789 --> 00:18:58,960
and of course I follow the situation in

332
00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:01,799
France and Europe where I go frequently

333
00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:06,190
and that's what you know these people

334
00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:08,500
were there I mean they had the

335
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:11,740
experience I did I had an experience of

336
00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:13,929
mine as you know when I when I was a

337
00:19:19,710 --> 00:19:16,900
teenager in France but to really

338
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:19,720
understand what's going on I can't make

339
00:19:26,430 --> 00:19:22,630
it up I have to talk to the people who

340
00:19:29,340 --> 00:19:26,440
are there and and try to understand to

341
00:19:32,970 --> 00:19:29,350
put it in the context of their family of

342
00:19:36,090 --> 00:19:32,980
their and here no thanks to Alan we have

343
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,100
the opportunity to see the impact on the

344
00:19:43,770 --> 00:19:39,280
life of this child when he grew up and

345
00:19:48,330 --> 00:19:43,780
on the impact on him now as as a man and

346
00:19:50,669 --> 00:19:48,340
it's a very emotional you know that

347
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:50,679
movie would be a great movie even if it

348
00:19:56,510 --> 00:19:53,710
hadn't anything to do with us phones

349
00:19:59,100 --> 00:19:56,520
right I mean the UFOs had the mystery

350
00:20:01,110 --> 00:19:59,110
but the human experience is

351
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:01,120
extraordinary the last ten minutes of

352
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:05,530
the film Alan well done of the last ten

353
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:08,080
minutes in fact the last 15 seconds of

354
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:13,330
the film is is extraordinary and Alan

355
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:13,919
okay

356
00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:17,260
let's talk about the audience right now

357
00:20:24,659 --> 00:20:20,590
is is now intrigued but they actually

358
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:24,669
don't know what happened to to Juan

359
00:20:31,290 --> 00:20:27,850
Perez that morning in September of

360
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:31,300
1978 and and you had to recreate that

361
00:20:35,870 --> 00:20:34,690
for the film which by the way well done

362
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:35,880
well done

363
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:39,280
what happened we'll just start with the

364
00:20:44,970 --> 00:20:42,130
basics he goes out he gets on his on his

365
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:44,980
horse he's a he's the son of a gaucho

366
00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:47,070
he's a gaucho he doesn't have a choice

367
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:50,590
he's a cowboy and he gets on his horse

368
00:21:01,440 --> 00:20:53,170
on his family's ranch and heads out what

369
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:01,450
happens next morning the usual things to

370
00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:04,510
do before to go to the school was to do

371
00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:07,300
some works in the countryside in the

372
00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:11,350
farm so every day his father that was

373
00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:15,070
very strict with him told told him to go

374
00:21:22,530 --> 00:21:18,600
to find a herd of horses and then he

375
00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:22,540
climbs out of his his horse commits its

376
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:28,030
commit goes to straight to to the forest

377
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:31,290
to find those those horses but when he

378
00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:34,930
while he was riding he finds out that

379
00:21:39,660 --> 00:21:37,270
above his head there was there were

380
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:39,670
three like that were doing like a

381
00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:43,690
frenetic dance he got his his horse got

382
00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:46,900
really scared and he he thought that he

383
00:21:50,730 --> 00:21:47,920
will get injured

384
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:50,740
kuan thought that and then he got back

385
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:52,690
to his house and told his father that he

386
00:21:58,850 --> 00:21:55,510
finds he found that three lights were

387
00:22:02,670 --> 00:21:58,860
dancing about his head and his father

388
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:02,680
ignored him completely and told him that

389
00:22:09,090 --> 00:22:06,010
you should go and find those horses and

390
00:22:12,570 --> 00:22:09,100
that's it don't bother me and then he

391
00:22:16,530 --> 00:22:12,580
goes back and then he find he found a

392
00:22:19,950 --> 00:22:16,540
big fog it was not the typical fog in

393
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:19,960
the morning it was very another kind of

394
00:22:29,940 --> 00:22:26,080
texture it it had and then he crosses he

395
00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:29,950
crossed default and he found that a big

396
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:33,670
like it was something like similar to if

397
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:36,310
he thought that what he was seeing it

398
00:22:41,170 --> 00:22:40,810
was a tractor or a house for the workers

399
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:41,180
of

400
00:22:47,050 --> 00:22:44,210
the farm he didn't realize that he was

401
00:22:50,770 --> 00:22:47,060
seen like a UFO but the shape of that

402
00:22:54,820 --> 00:22:50,780
object it was round and it was landed on

403
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:54,830
the earth on the ground and then he's

404
00:23:03,100 --> 00:22:58,040
his his horse didn't want to go further

405
00:23:07,630 --> 00:23:03,110
and then Quandt jumps out of the horse

406
00:23:12,250 --> 00:23:07,640
and he goes like very slowly to that

407
00:23:15,490 --> 00:23:12,260
ship then suddenly the door opens up and

408
00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:15,500
there is a total being a very tall being

409
00:23:22,270 --> 00:23:17,150
like two meters and a half or three

410
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:22,280
meters that was saying like inviting him

411
00:23:30,190 --> 00:23:26,510
to come to come and enter that ship but

412
00:23:32,140 --> 00:23:30,200
that time one was the only thing the

413
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:32,150
only thing that he was thinking it was

414
00:23:39,550 --> 00:23:36,320
like well it perhaps is some some one of

415
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:39,560
the worker of the farm or something like

416
00:23:49,330 --> 00:23:45,170
that and then a lather goes down and he

417
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:49,340
like tights the horse next to the lather

418
00:23:56,770 --> 00:23:52,880
and then he climbs up it was the the

419
00:24:00,010 --> 00:23:56,780
stairs of the ladder were very very like

420
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:00,020
right and he was buried it was very

421
00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:02,510
difficult for him to climb up then he

422
00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:05,750
goes inside of this ship or this object

423
00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:10,220
and it was really it was really funny

424
00:24:14,970 --> 00:24:12,230
because in front of him there was like a

425
00:24:17,980 --> 00:24:14,980
transparent wall like an electromagnetic

426
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:17,990
field that he couldn't pass it

427
00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:23,510
so what he saw was like like on his left

428
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:24,140
side

429
00:24:33,490 --> 00:24:27,520
there was a small thing like one meter

430
00:24:37,390 --> 00:24:33,500
like he was a cutting meat cutting Mick

431
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:37,400
above a table but the meat was not full

432
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:39,890
of blood there was no blood in the mid

433
00:24:48,150 --> 00:24:42,290
and in his right side like there was a

434
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:48,160
distal being in front of some monitors

435
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:51,170
in there were they were saw like a

436
00:24:56,899 --> 00:24:54,480
keyboard but without buttons model like

437
00:25:02,599 --> 00:24:56,909
like what we can see now with our

438
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:02,609
tablets or iPads and then the little the

439
00:25:08,779 --> 00:25:06,570
little being started to go from the from

440
00:25:11,570 --> 00:25:08,789
his side to the one side with our

441
00:25:14,389 --> 00:25:11,580
difficulties but one who then go through

442
00:25:18,889 --> 00:25:14,399
yeah one describes Hill right one

443
00:25:24,769 --> 00:25:18,899
describes it as a glass wall and and

444
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:24,779
also not to interrupt but watching the

445
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:27,690
way that one deals with him and

446
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:30,809
describes it is extraordinary because

447
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:33,330
he's never seen anything like he's never

448
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:35,850
seen a science fiction film right and

449
00:25:42,859 --> 00:25:39,330
he's describing this technology and what

450
00:25:45,289 --> 00:25:42,869
he is seeing for the first time and it

451
00:25:48,229 --> 00:25:45,299
can only be the way that he is

452
00:25:50,509 --> 00:25:48,239
describing it we understand it we live

453
00:25:53,330 --> 00:25:50,519
in a technical society we totally get it

454
00:25:55,009 --> 00:25:53,340
for him he's trying to describe

455
00:25:58,099 --> 00:25:55,019
something that he has never seen before

456
00:26:00,289 --> 00:25:58,109
he does a pretty good job of it but it's

457
00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:00,299
I can't imagine what he was going

458
00:26:08,749 --> 00:26:03,590
through because he describes the little

459
00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:08,759
shorter et being as a little boy because

460
00:26:14,570 --> 00:26:10,289
he doesn't have another way to describe

461
00:26:17,180 --> 00:26:14,580
him right it's a it's in a Jacques I'm

462
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:17,190
I'm always thinking innocent it was an

463
00:26:25,340 --> 00:26:22,710
innocent description right yes you know

464
00:26:29,379 --> 00:26:25,350
you have to imagine the conditions in

465
00:26:34,779 --> 00:26:29,389
which he was living I mean that farm was

466
00:26:42,169 --> 00:26:34,789
was poor the family was very simple and

467
00:26:44,629 --> 00:26:42,179
that there is no question that the the

468
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:44,639
description he did is accurate because

469
00:26:53,349 --> 00:26:50,480
you know we very often I'm angry at the

470
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:53,359
questions that scientists ask as if

471
00:26:59,989 --> 00:26:56,700
people in the country couldn't make good

472
00:27:02,479 --> 00:26:59,999
observations around him you know but

473
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:02,489
people in the country live by observing

474
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:05,369
nature they know a lot more and they

475
00:27:11,310 --> 00:27:08,260
notice a lot more details

476
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,320
about natures and you know a scientist

477
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:14,080
coming from a university would in the

478
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:17,530
same environment and on top of that one

479
00:27:23,130 --> 00:27:20,770
was very brave it was a very brave kid

480
00:27:25,770 --> 00:27:23,140
there was no question when you when you

481
00:27:27,930 --> 00:27:25,780
meet his father there is no question

482
00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:27,940
that you know the father tells you what

483
00:27:33,539 --> 00:27:30,100
to do and you do it I mean there is no

484
00:27:38,250 --> 00:27:33,549
no argument there is no no room for you

485
00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:38,260
know for for changing the assignment and

486
00:27:47,549 --> 00:27:43,750
he threw out he his attitude is one of

487
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:47,559
curiosity and exploration and it's

488
00:27:52,919 --> 00:27:50,049
completely consistent I mean there is no

489
00:27:59,159 --> 00:27:52,929
no room to say well maybe he was

490
00:28:03,750 --> 00:27:59,169
dreaming maybe he was you know in some

491
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:03,760
some sort of state that see the whole

492
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:08,110
description is logical it's logical and

493
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:11,049
at the same time it makes no sense I

494
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:14,799
mean who are these B it is these beings

495
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:17,440
you know this very tall robot like being

496
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:21,520
and that the the short one who is

497
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:27,130
cutting meat on the table it turns out

498
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:34,510
so I sent Allan my report from my you

499
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:37,210
know the investigation that I did when I

500
00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:40,809
was when I was there in 1980 and it

501
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:45,160
included reports of cattle disappearing

502
00:28:52,169 --> 00:28:49,360
in the area and you know those were the

503
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,179
days of cattle mutilations in the United

504
00:28:57,630 --> 00:28:54,640
States they didn't know anything about

505
00:29:01,080 --> 00:28:57,640
that in Argentina at the time and here

506
00:29:07,159 --> 00:29:01,090
is this this being you know inside this

507
00:29:10,409 --> 00:29:07,169
so-called UFO carrying a leg of of a cow

508
00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:10,419
extra extra I'm gonna use extraordinary

509
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:12,940
so many times tonight I can just feel

510
00:29:17,610 --> 00:29:15,010
coming I need to take a break right here

511
00:29:18,670 --> 00:29:17,620
let's do that our guest tonight Allen's

512
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,680
divil Minh and

513
00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:20,960
Jacques Vallee we're discussing their

514
00:29:25,330 --> 00:29:23,540
new film it is called witness of another

515
00:29:27,460 --> 00:29:25,340
world we're going to take a quick break

516
00:29:29,230 --> 00:29:27,470
and we'll be right back stay with us

517
00:29:32,510 --> 00:29:29,240
it's fade to black and the game changer

518
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:32,520
network and cagey RA the planet

519
00:29:54,970 --> 00:29:52,330
[Music]

520
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:54,980
all right welcome back fade to black I'm

521
00:29:58,660 --> 00:29:56,690
your host Jimmy church tonight

522
00:30:01,570 --> 00:29:58,670
it is Allen's Tibble Minh and Jacques

523
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:01,580
Vallee discussing the new film witness

524
00:30:07,060 --> 00:30:03,440
of another world tomorrow night Michael

525
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:07,070
Lee Hill is back joining us Wednesday

526
00:30:10,570 --> 00:30:07,520
night

527
00:30:12,850 --> 00:30:10,580
film director Caroline quarry had

528
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:12,860
tonight it's it's Alan stableman and

529
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:15,050
Jacque Calais and Alan in a second I

530
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:16,930
want to ask you about the recreation

531
00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:20,240
that you did before we get to that

532
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:25,700
Jacques after this goes down one doesn't

533
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:27,250
understand anything

534
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:31,610
one thing is for sure he doesn't know if

535
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:35,170
he is going to expose his family to this

536
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:39,530
is this a dream is he crazy he doesn't

537
00:30:44,380 --> 00:30:41,930
know how to approach this and he doesn't

538
00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:44,390
have there isn't a local support group

539
00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:47,260
or anybody for him to turn to is there

540
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:52,520
no and father family you know this is

541
00:31:01,380 --> 00:30:57,130
part of the Latin culture the the

542
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:01,390
reputation of the family is now at stake

543
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:04,640
neighbors know that something happened

544
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:08,570
and it's strange the reputation of the

545
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:12,890
farm is is you know is in question

546
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:17,840
so the and I didn't realize it at the

547
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:20,960
time but that's very clear from the

548
00:31:30,030 --> 00:31:25,250
picture that that Alan you know painted

549
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:30,040
when you wrote to me that he was pushed

550
00:31:37,510 --> 00:31:33,050
you know somewhat estranged from his

551
00:31:41,770 --> 00:31:37,520
family over the years and of course when

552
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:41,780
when Alan met him he was living by

553
00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:45,530
himself with surrounded with animals in

554
00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:50,230
an isolated farm hiring himself out to

555
00:31:59,710 --> 00:31:54,380
owners of properties around around the

556
00:32:03,370 --> 00:31:59,720
area making you know very poor living

557
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:03,380
this way and Alan now you needed

558
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,530
to capture this on film you need to

559
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:09,440
capture the remoteness and the emotional

560
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,410
aspect of what Juan was going through

561
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:14,720
and these these amazing questions that

562
00:32:19,540 --> 00:32:16,850
he's forced into at a very young age to

563
00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:19,550
ask himself he's got to do some self

564
00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:24,800
analysis here how were you able to to

565
00:32:28,990 --> 00:32:26,840
approach this it's it's done really well

566
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:29,000
in the film but as a filmmaker this is

567
00:32:34,930 --> 00:32:32,090
very difficult well it's a good question

568
00:32:39,790 --> 00:32:34,940
because at the very early stage of this

569
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:39,800
project I was more intriguing on trying

570
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,770
to find like evidence of what we were

571
00:32:48,610 --> 00:32:45,200
dealing with this UFO phenomena or

572
00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:48,620
trying to explain what is the UFO

573
00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:51,980
phenomena or tried at least to get some

574
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:54,550
other kind of answer rather than the

575
00:33:02,280 --> 00:32:58,010
extra-terrestrial hypothesis but then

576
00:33:04,750 --> 00:33:02,290
when I started to work with one I

577
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:04,760
realized that I was dealing with a

578
00:33:16,660 --> 00:33:12,250
broken man so besides or I preferred to

579
00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:16,670
help this man to try to find answers on

580
00:33:24,790 --> 00:33:19,580
his nightmare because the only question

581
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:24,800
that he was like asking himself was why

582
00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:27,530
this happened to me why to me because

583
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:31,270
after this contact he started to have

584
00:33:38,170 --> 00:33:34,400
cognitive dreams or premonition dreams

585
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:38,180
that was a living hell for him every

586
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:40,070
night he was having these dreams that

587
00:33:46,780 --> 00:33:43,730
were more real than our reality that was

588
00:33:48,670 --> 00:33:46,790
the way that he described it and he was

589
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:48,680
really suffering because he didn't

590
00:33:55,570 --> 00:33:51,970
wanted to have dreams about death about

591
00:33:58,420 --> 00:33:55,580
accidents that were that his family were

592
00:34:03,640 --> 00:33:58,430
going to have or other kind of relatives

593
00:34:06,010 --> 00:34:03,650
or his friends etc so instead of trying

594
00:34:08,919 --> 00:34:06,020
to find evidence about the UFO

595
00:34:12,220 --> 00:34:08,929
phenomenon I tried just to focus on the

596
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:12,230
human aspect of the of this phenomenon

597
00:34:17,310 --> 00:34:15,290
and now I realized that it was is the

598
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:17,320
most intriguing and more

599
00:34:24,340 --> 00:34:21,040
fascinating aspect of this phenomenon

600
00:34:30,150 --> 00:34:24,350
because it's hard to cup like hardcore

601
00:34:33,790 --> 00:34:30,160
evidence videos or photograph etc but I

602
00:34:38,140 --> 00:34:33,800
prefer to stay just in the human aspect

603
00:34:42,910 --> 00:34:38,150
and I try to to portrait the way of

604
00:34:48,090 --> 00:34:42,920
living of one the best I can and that's

605
00:34:52,690 --> 00:34:48,100
the nature of the film are truly message

606
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:52,700
about like an extraordinary case or one

607
00:34:58,840 --> 00:34:55,850
Paris because this his name is like the

608
00:35:02,520 --> 00:34:58,850
same as a John Doe it's something like

609
00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:02,530
the an extraordinary case happened to

610
00:35:10,860 --> 00:35:07,420
like a to a John Doe - no no one so

611
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:10,870
that's the way of summarizing this

612
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:16,310
there's there's another part of this

613
00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:20,000
it's the foundation of the story which

614
00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:23,990
is one and his family he's a gaucho he's

615
00:35:31,690 --> 00:35:28,550
a cowboy living remotely not isolated

616
00:35:34,660 --> 00:35:31,700
but but living remotely it's not like

617
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:34,670
he's in the suburb of wet asaurus right

618
00:35:42,010 --> 00:35:38,870
and he is a him and his family are

619
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:42,020
sturdy folks where they they live off

620
00:35:50,890 --> 00:35:46,970
the land they're strong people and this

621
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:50,900
is somebody that lives that life you

622
00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:53,390
know he's a very strong you have to

623
00:35:59,520 --> 00:35:56,390
you're a survivor out there it's not an

624
00:36:02,470 --> 00:35:59,530
easy life and here is somebody that

625
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:02,480
lives this life and he's sitting next to

626
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:07,730
you crying right where yeah he's that

627
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:11,210
type of he's a conflict of his own world

628
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:14,330
right on one side he's he's a gaucho and

629
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:16,910
he's he's this this strong person on the

630
00:36:21,730 --> 00:36:19,760
other side he's he's been brought to

631
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:21,740
tears what was that like for you to

632
00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:26,480
experience that well for me it was very

633
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:29,380
emotional to make this film and

634
00:36:35,249 --> 00:36:31,920
because I have to deal with my own

635
00:36:39,690 --> 00:36:35,259
questions my own way of express myself

636
00:36:43,859 --> 00:36:39,700
and I found out that sitting next to him

637
00:36:46,859 --> 00:36:43,869
I learned a lot lot of things mostly I

638
00:36:51,660 --> 00:36:46,869
learned to trust to another person that

639
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:51,670
I never met and in the case of one I

640
00:36:58,259 --> 00:36:54,249
remember the first one of the first

641
00:37:00,779 --> 00:36:58,269
scenes that we shoot was one was one

642
00:37:05,609 --> 00:37:00,789
with we were drinking mattad that it's

643
00:37:08,430 --> 00:37:05,619
similar to a tea and then I started to

644
00:37:12,329 --> 00:37:08,440
ask questions about his dreams about

645
00:37:16,349 --> 00:37:12,339
this phenomenon and then one minute

646
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:16,359
after he started to cry and it was

647
00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:19,210
really hard for me because I didn't know

648
00:37:27,539 --> 00:37:22,859
what to do when I studied film arts I

649
00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:27,549
didn't have like a class what to do when

650
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:30,670
actors or interviews interviewers

651
00:37:41,579 --> 00:37:37,359
started to cry so I just froze I just

652
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:41,589
froze myself and the next day I started

653
00:37:51,299 --> 00:37:44,710
to change every scene and every question

654
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:51,309
and like I shift all my questions and my

655
00:38:00,079 --> 00:37:56,170
sins in order to to help one so that's

656
00:38:05,279 --> 00:38:00,089
when the one when I wrote to Jack when I

657
00:38:08,489 --> 00:38:05,289
like showed to one some videos about my

658
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:08,499
trip to paranoid when I asked some

659
00:38:16,109 --> 00:38:12,249
shamans what happened to one how can we

660
00:38:18,029 --> 00:38:16,119
help it because one had what any roots

661
00:38:20,819 --> 00:38:18,039
would awareness it's one of the most

662
00:38:25,410 --> 00:38:20,829
important indigenous tribe in South

663
00:38:29,219 --> 00:38:25,420
America and Jacques there's there's

664
00:38:32,219 --> 00:38:29,229
another interesting twist to all of this

665
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:32,229
for you as a researcher there were or

666
00:38:39,540 --> 00:38:35,650
two or three other cases sightings in

667
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:39,550
this town very small town

668
00:38:48,220 --> 00:38:46,130
in in and around wands sighting can you

669
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:48,230
take us through that and as a researcher

670
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:51,200
that how did you feel about that where

671
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:53,810
you had you know some independent

672
00:39:00,160 --> 00:38:57,050
evidence here that would support not

673
00:39:03,250 --> 00:39:00,170
only Juan's experience but the other

674
00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:03,260
part of it and and the contact that Juan

675
00:39:13,420 --> 00:39:05,900
had because the other sightings didn't

676
00:39:17,950 --> 00:39:13,430
have the direct contact did they because

677
00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:17,960
we absent those other cases you could

678
00:39:27,610 --> 00:39:21,910
still say well you know maybe this is a

679
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:27,620
waking dream that this child had you

680
00:39:33,310 --> 00:39:30,050
know me maybe I mean it's clear that he

681
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:33,320
didn't make it up but it could be some

682
00:39:38,770 --> 00:39:35,450
sort of hallucination

683
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:38,780
after all he's very isolated you know in

684
00:39:43,930 --> 00:39:41,450
that part of the country but the fact is

685
00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:43,940
that there were three these three other

686
00:39:51,790 --> 00:39:48,190
cases were adults men all three were men

687
00:39:57,070 --> 00:39:51,800
who were either going to work on coming

688
00:40:01,170 --> 00:39:57,080
back from work and so lights and Allen

689
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:01,180
did a wonderful job of hiding them and

690
00:40:07,660 --> 00:40:04,400
re-interviewing them and you can you can

691
00:40:10,030 --> 00:40:07,670
see the emotion also in their testimony

692
00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:10,040
that they couldn't explain what it was

693
00:40:17,460 --> 00:40:14,870
and they you can see the this fear in

694
00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:17,470
these people who by now are you know

695
00:40:23,310 --> 00:40:20,030
professional people and they have a

696
00:40:27,060 --> 00:40:23,320
family they have a job in business and

697
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:27,070
when Allen introduced them on the film

698
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:31,610
you can you can feel that that sense of

699
00:40:37,770 --> 00:40:34,370
mystery coming back and this was again

700
00:40:41,620 --> 00:40:37,780
the same week and I think that is what

701
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:41,630
you know put some substance behind a

702
00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:44,510
whole the whole experience and then you

703
00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:48,020
have to go back and say well are there

704
00:40:53,250 --> 00:40:51,230
other physical correlations to the

705
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:53,260
experience and they are

706
00:40:58,260 --> 00:40:55,510
for example there is a mark on the skin

707
00:41:01,410 --> 00:40:58,270
of one's shoulder

708
00:41:06,110 --> 00:41:01,420
well I've done quite a bit of research

709
00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:06,120
both in the US and in France people

710
00:41:13,550 --> 00:41:09,880
reporting that they wake up with a mark

711
00:41:16,980 --> 00:41:13,560
on their skin which is not explained by

712
00:41:18,740 --> 00:41:16,990
you know anything that they've done it

713
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:18,750
seems to happen overnight

714
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:24,910
the horse was tied to now you have you

715
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:27,370
know some of that makes you laugh

716
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:32,050
because here's this kid who is 12 he's

717
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:35,170
not afraid of anything is going into the

718
00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:38,770
fog he meets this extraordinary craft

719
00:41:46,220 --> 00:41:42,070
and his extraordinary beings he climbs

720
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:46,230
the ladder to go see what's inside and

721
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:50,530
he is there a very good observer you

722
00:41:56,460 --> 00:41:52,330
know the details are very clear in his

723
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:56,470
mind when when when I interviewed him he

724
00:42:03,960 --> 00:41:59,920
ties her horse to the ladder of the

725
00:42:04,830 --> 00:42:03,970
craft the horse the name of the horse is

726
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:04,840
Kameda

727
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:08,560
the comet okay no day you can't make

728
00:42:12,930 --> 00:42:09,490
that up okay

729
00:42:15,540 --> 00:42:12,940
they though the host doesn't like the

730
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:15,550
whole thing the horse is kicking the

731
00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:18,240
ladder and the horse gets hurt

732
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:22,110
now the kid goes back to the farm with a

733
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:29,170
horse that is hurt and within a week the

734
00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:33,570
horse became blind then the horse died

735
00:42:38,850 --> 00:42:36,280
now we have lots of cases where people

736
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:38,860
were hurt as a result of a close

737
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:41,650
encounter and I've done you know and I

738
00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:44,290
continue to do special study of medical

739
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:48,510
effects of Close Encounters and you know

740
00:42:55,550 --> 00:42:52,330
I'm communicating with of course with

741
00:42:59,940 --> 00:42:55,560
doctors I'm not a doctor myself

742
00:43:02,520 --> 00:42:59,950
and we're trying to find what what that

743
00:43:06,650 --> 00:43:02,530
could be but here the kid didn't have

744
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:06,660
any ill effect physiologically

745
00:43:12,499 --> 00:43:11,200
he was not paralyzed he was not hurt in

746
00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:12,509
any way

747
00:43:23,579 --> 00:43:19,529
battle halls died now you end up with a

748
00:43:25,979 --> 00:43:23,589
series of observations like this that

749
00:43:28,499 --> 00:43:25,989
converged to tell you that something

750
00:43:35,299 --> 00:43:28,509
extraordinary did happen and it was

751
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:38,989
ranged from the completely physical to

752
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:42,640
really the mystical and I think your

753
00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:46,410
Alan should talk about this because he

754
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:51,160
reconstructed his later life and his

755
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:53,890
life of course he's a hunter he goes

756
00:44:01,589 --> 00:43:57,249
into the forest is very close to animals

757
00:44:04,410 --> 00:44:01,599
he's very close to nature and there is a

758
00:44:08,519 --> 00:44:04,420
sense of mysticism that comes from that

759
00:44:13,140 --> 00:44:08,529
which is informed by the experience that

760
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:13,150
he had that he had as a child he says

761
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:15,609
and that too is extraordinary

762
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:18,640
yeah Jacques you bring up one of the for

763
00:44:24,660 --> 00:44:21,670
me an emotional connection in this film

764
00:44:27,539 --> 00:44:24,670
that got to me which Juan says you know

765
00:44:30,299 --> 00:44:27,549
I think I can't talk to people you know

766
00:44:33,210 --> 00:44:30,309
my friends are my animals

767
00:44:36,809 --> 00:44:33,220
my friends are my dogs and and that's

768
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:36,819
who I can communicate with today and

769
00:44:44,370 --> 00:44:40,089
that just rips at you because he doesn't

770
00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:44,380
feel that people will understand his

771
00:44:50,249 --> 00:44:47,230
experience and he's been dealing with

772
00:44:52,890 --> 00:44:50,259
this now for 35 years right Alan well

773
00:44:57,450 --> 00:44:52,900
even his connection with Alan you know

774
00:45:00,779 --> 00:44:57,460
as open and gentle and smartest Alan was

775
00:45:03,870 --> 00:45:00,789
he was discovering this for the first

776
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:03,880
time that's why I thought that I could

777
00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:07,569
help because you know one remembered my

778
00:45:14,489 --> 00:45:11,049
visit to to his family and to his farm

779
00:45:19,289 --> 00:45:14,499
and the conversation we had so that

780
00:45:20,430 --> 00:45:19,299
could close a cycle for him and it could

781
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:20,440
begin that he

782
00:45:24,690 --> 00:45:22,810
that's what we of course what we were

783
00:45:28,380 --> 00:45:24,700
trying to do yeah absolutely

784
00:45:31,770 --> 00:45:28,390
Alan how did you choose to approach that

785
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:31,780
aspect of it where he's just emotionally

786
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:35,530
so isolated that truly his his only

787
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:37,690
friends in his communication is you know

788
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:39,730
are his own pets and his and the animals

789
00:45:48,930 --> 00:45:43,710
on his farm well it was easy because I

790
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:48,940
only like I only show the spirit of one

791
00:45:55,170 --> 00:45:52,569
his soul because he the way that the

792
00:45:59,700 --> 00:45:55,180
movie shows him is the way he is the way

793
00:46:02,220 --> 00:45:59,710
I met him very kind man he has a strong

794
00:46:06,930 --> 00:46:02,230
connection with Halden nature with his

795
00:46:11,250 --> 00:46:06,940
animals also plenty of people in Venado

796
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:11,260
Tuerto his hometown brings him autumn

797
00:46:18,690 --> 00:46:14,650
some animals that are really injured and

798
00:46:20,430 --> 00:46:18,700
one heals him heals them so he has a

799
00:46:23,250 --> 00:46:20,440
strong connection with the animals and

800
00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:23,260
the only my only job was to try to

801
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:28,630
portrayed him as much as I can the very

802
00:46:34,980 --> 00:46:31,450
transparent I didn't want to add any

803
00:46:39,410 --> 00:46:34,990
effects or any kind of bizarre

804
00:46:42,930 --> 00:46:39,420
techniques to show the spectacular a

805
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:42,940
encounter that he had I only wanted to

806
00:46:51,450 --> 00:46:46,480
show his suffering his trauma the

807
00:46:54,089 --> 00:46:51,460
particular case in one is that his he

808
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:54,099
had that supernatural drama it's not the

809
00:47:02,190 --> 00:46:58,000
same as a biographical drama so my only

810
00:47:05,370 --> 00:47:02,200
job was to try to describe him as the

811
00:47:06,059 --> 00:47:05,380
way I was seeing him yeah the best way

812
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:06,069
to do that

813
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:09,280
show show Juan Perez with some puppies

814
00:47:16,170 --> 00:47:12,810
[Laughter]

815
00:47:20,940 --> 00:47:16,180
it was just an extraordinary scene now

816
00:47:25,470 --> 00:47:20,950
okay we need to get straight into the

817
00:47:28,770 --> 00:47:25,480
other part of this experience which is

818
00:47:33,420 --> 00:47:28,780
the the visions the visions of the

819
00:47:36,509 --> 00:47:33,430
future take us through that Alan

820
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:36,519
what was what was he experiencing in

821
00:47:43,289 --> 00:47:39,250
these dreams and he describes them if

822
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:43,299
I'm not mistaken as as real he felt that

823
00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:47,170
these were real he's had dreams but

824
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:50,559
these dreams were different right well

825
00:47:58,799 --> 00:47:54,250
he sometimes it's hard for him to

826
00:48:02,789 --> 00:47:58,809
explain his his experiences but the way

827
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:02,799
he described them is like we have this

828
00:48:10,740 --> 00:48:04,930
reality when we are awake

829
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:10,750
no so one told me that his dreams were

830
00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:15,250
more real than our reality when because

831
00:48:23,759 --> 00:48:19,240
he knows how to distinguish two kinds of

832
00:48:28,529 --> 00:48:23,769
dreams the regular dream and these kind

833
00:48:35,279 --> 00:48:28,539
of dreams but the trigger is when he

834
00:48:39,299 --> 00:48:35,289
dreams on his right side he goes into

835
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:39,309
these dreams that are more real than our

836
00:48:46,620 --> 00:48:43,690
reality but if he dreams like to the

837
00:48:49,230 --> 00:48:46,630
left style he will have like regular

838
00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:49,240
dream so when he's like sleeping and

839
00:48:57,019 --> 00:48:53,529
then when he's dreaming he goes into the

840
00:49:00,749 --> 00:48:57,029
his right side he goes directly to this

841
00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:00,759
super real dream and then he goes very

842
00:49:06,690 --> 00:49:03,700
mmediately today to the other side in

843
00:49:11,819 --> 00:49:06,700
order to stop this kind enough vision

844
00:49:15,410 --> 00:49:11,829
and during like 35 years he had these

845
00:49:19,319 --> 00:49:15,420
kind of of dreams but one of the

846
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:19,329
peculiar thing is that when I went to to

847
00:49:26,190 --> 00:49:22,569
Paraguay when I made this dish shamans

848
00:49:29,999 --> 00:49:26,200
these wise men and women they told me

849
00:49:34,740 --> 00:49:30,009
that the way that they had to connect to

850
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:34,750
higher levels or higher realms it's

851
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:38,650
thanks to the dreams so we have like

852
00:49:46,410 --> 00:49:41,410
this ancient community the war any

853
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:46,420
community is the roots of one connect to

854
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:47,050
the

855
00:50:00,000 --> 00:49:55,930
didn't know that that's right let me

856
00:50:03,090 --> 00:50:00,010
jump in Alan to be clear here you went

857
00:50:07,410 --> 00:50:03,100
to Paraguay but the shamans that you met

858
00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:07,420
there they were not familiar with Juan

859
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:11,710
Perez in his case one is not there there

860
00:50:16,620 --> 00:50:14,170
is no connection between the two but you

861
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:16,630
set it up beautifully in the film or

862
00:50:21,930 --> 00:50:19,330
you've got Juan describing what he is

863
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:21,940
seeing and then you go to Paraguay and

864
00:50:27,180 --> 00:50:24,970
they describe what you should see when

865
00:50:32,670 --> 00:50:27,190
you're making these connections and the

866
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:32,680
visions were the same right right yes I

867
00:50:39,150 --> 00:50:36,850
made one of my question before I made

868
00:50:44,010 --> 00:50:39,160
this project after reading many books

869
00:50:45,780 --> 00:50:44,020
after reading plenty of book of Jack one

870
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:45,790
of the question was if there is a

871
00:50:53,810 --> 00:50:50,110
connection between the lineage the

872
00:50:59,490 --> 00:50:53,820
ancestry and the UFO phenomenon because

873
00:51:02,130 --> 00:50:59,500
when I met his the family of one the

874
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:02,140
mother the mother of one told me that he

875
00:51:10,110 --> 00:51:05,920
she had a similar experience when she

876
00:51:11,850 --> 00:51:10,120
was a teenage a teenager so then I

877
00:51:14,550 --> 00:51:11,860
realized that probably there is a

878
00:51:19,290 --> 00:51:14,560
connection and then I I wanted to go to

879
00:51:21,540 --> 00:51:19,300
his good roots that they are from from

880
00:51:24,750 --> 00:51:21,550
Paraguay from the war any people from

881
00:51:28,940 --> 00:51:24,760
this Warnie tribe I went and when I went

882
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:28,950
there I found out that they were like

883
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:31,930
they were familiar with the UFO

884
00:51:38,580 --> 00:51:34,870
phenomenon but not the way as Western

885
00:51:42,540 --> 00:51:38,590
people are they they started to talk

886
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:42,550
about the this this phenomenon as a as

887
00:51:48,420 --> 00:51:45,250
an a holographic phenomenon that it's a

888
00:51:52,820 --> 00:51:48,430
hundred fifty percent real and 50

889
00:51:55,770 --> 00:51:52,830
percent not real because they have to

890
00:52:00,180 --> 00:51:55,780
they told me that this phenomenon comes

891
00:52:00,750 --> 00:52:00,190
from two sides one side represents the

892
00:52:03,450 --> 00:52:00,760
evil

893
00:52:06,990 --> 00:52:03,460
and the other side represent the

894
00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:07,000
goodness so they have to like confront

895
00:52:14,310 --> 00:52:10,030
them confront this light or this shape

896
00:52:17,550 --> 00:52:14,320
or whatever and start to obligate them

897
00:52:20,210 --> 00:52:17,560
to show the real like the real shape of

898
00:52:24,030 --> 00:52:20,220
this form it's really hard to explain

899
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:24,040
but when they were telling me this like

900
00:52:29,820 --> 00:52:27,130
this experience I remember all the books

901
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:29,830
of check and started to say ok they are

902
00:52:34,620 --> 00:52:31,930
telling me the same thing the Sharks

903
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:34,630
described in his books this is amazing I

904
00:52:41,370 --> 00:52:37,210
have to record this and that's the

905
00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:41,380
background of the of this story it and

906
00:52:47,820 --> 00:52:43,900
now when we come back after the break

907
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:47,830
we're gonna get into without giving the

908
00:52:55,530 --> 00:52:51,730
film away but the way that you helped

909
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:55,540
achieve this closure it's a it's a

910
00:52:59,970 --> 00:52:57,370
fascinating thing to watch and you

911
00:53:03,720 --> 00:52:59,980
captured it really well and of course

912
00:53:06,570 --> 00:53:03,730
the the reuniting of Jacques and Juan

913
00:53:09,290 --> 00:53:06,580
which we'll get into right after the

914
00:53:14,220 --> 00:53:09,300
break I can't imagine Jacques

915
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:14,230
emotionally not only for you but for one

916
00:53:19,050 --> 00:53:16,810
what that must have been like and it's

917
00:53:20,970 --> 00:53:19,060
captured in the film and we'll discuss

918
00:53:21,630 --> 00:53:20,980
all of that when we come back after this

919
00:53:23,790 --> 00:53:21,640
short break

920
00:53:26,820 --> 00:53:23,800
this is fade to black I am your host

921
00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:26,830
Jimmy Church it's not going to take long

922
00:53:32,910 --> 00:53:30,550
and we'll be right back to it fade to

923
00:53:36,690 --> 00:53:32,920
black and the game changer Network stay

924
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:11,360
[Music]

925
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:14,170
[Applause]

926
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:16,370
welcome back fade to black i'm your host

927
00:54:19,630 --> 00:54:18,170
jimmy church tonight our guest alan

928
00:54:21,610 --> 00:54:19,640
stivell Minh and Jacques la we're

929
00:54:22,510 --> 00:54:21,620
talking about their new film witness of

930
00:54:24,750 --> 00:54:22,520
another world

931
00:54:27,610 --> 00:54:24,760
tomorrow night Michael Lee Hill

932
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:27,620
Wednesday night Caroline quarry Thursday

933
00:54:35,110 --> 00:54:31,310
night open lines all night long now

934
00:54:38,830 --> 00:54:35,120
Jacques I wanted to I wanted to say this

935
00:54:41,740 --> 00:54:38,840
for the audience you and I have talked

936
00:54:44,140 --> 00:54:41,750
over the years many times about you know

937
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:44,150
coming on fade to black and you had said

938
00:54:47,710 --> 00:54:45,680
to me I'm gonna throw you under the bus

939
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:47,720
a little bit you had said to me Jenny

940
00:54:53,290 --> 00:54:50,480
when I have something to say that is

941
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:53,300
important we will do this I promise you

942
00:54:59,950 --> 00:54:56,240
and and you said to me earlier today

943
00:55:04,660 --> 00:54:59,960
Jimmy this is it this is what I need to

944
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:04,670
talk about and for you the story of Juan

945
00:55:13,210 --> 00:55:08,950
Perez why is it so important to you well

946
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:13,220
it's important on several levels it's

947
00:55:20,020 --> 00:55:16,010
important for the field in in general

948
00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:20,030
because it is you know most most UFO

949
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:22,910
stories somebody has seen something and

950
00:55:28,930 --> 00:55:26,570
they report it and some investigators

951
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:28,940
come and they write up the story and

952
00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:30,770
they publish it and you never know what

953
00:55:37,090 --> 00:55:34,040
happens after that and in in the work

954
00:55:40,810 --> 00:55:37,100
I've done I've always tried to take the

955
00:55:42,370 --> 00:55:40,820
long view first I stay away from the

956
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:42,380
things that are you know in all the

957
00:55:49,210 --> 00:55:44,690
newspapers and on television and so on I

958
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:49,220
try to focus on the things where I can

959
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:51,890
get involved with the environment of the

960
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:55,010
of the witness or witnesses get to know

961
00:56:00,610 --> 00:55:57,920
them gain their trust because what they

962
00:56:02,470 --> 00:56:00,620
what they tell you the first time is

963
00:56:07,660 --> 00:56:02,480
probably not the whole story

964
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:07,670
and they you know this is in the case of

965
00:56:13,350 --> 00:56:10,510
one this is these stories are

966
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:13,360
frightening they are difficult they are

967
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:16,610
very difficult to insert into everyday

968
00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:20,480
life and even for people to remember

969
00:56:25,450 --> 00:56:22,910
what happened there you have to give

970
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:25,460
them the opportunity and I was listening

971
00:56:30,740 --> 00:56:26,850
to what Alan will say

972
00:56:33,890 --> 00:56:30,750
earlier about you know it's not knowing

973
00:56:36,740 --> 00:56:33,900
what to do when one started crying

974
00:56:40,490 --> 00:56:36,750
because it's the last thing that he

975
00:56:45,710 --> 00:56:40,500
expected but what happened is that Alan

976
00:56:48,830 --> 00:56:45,720
gave a space where these emotions could

977
00:56:51,830 --> 00:56:48,840
come up and of course you know a

978
00:56:52,550 --> 00:56:51,840
professional psychiatrist knows how to

979
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:52,560
do that

980
00:56:59,300 --> 00:56:56,250
but as investigators we don't realize

981
00:57:02,810 --> 00:56:59,310
that very often you don't really need to

982
00:57:04,820 --> 00:57:02,820
have a questionnaire to have you know a

983
00:57:09,140 --> 00:57:04,830
series of questions or put people on the

984
00:57:12,410 --> 00:57:09,150
spot and you can just let the situation

985
00:57:16,340 --> 00:57:12,420
evolve and that's what's so so beautiful

986
00:57:19,550 --> 00:57:16,350
in this movie so it's very rare that

987
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:19,560
someone has been followed like this in

988
00:57:24,740 --> 00:57:21,090
fact I don't know of any other case

989
00:57:27,590 --> 00:57:24,750
where someone was followed for you know

990
00:57:32,660 --> 00:57:27,600
from the time he was 14 to the time he

991
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:32,670
was 50 in such in such detail with his

992
00:57:38,180 --> 00:57:37,200
environment at for me that was a

993
00:57:41,870 --> 00:57:38,190
different story

994
00:57:47,570 --> 00:57:41,880
remember when I was there I was very I

995
00:57:50,410 --> 00:57:47,580
had my wife with me we were discovering

996
00:57:55,930 --> 00:57:50,420
this wonderful country I mean I love

997
00:58:03,500 --> 00:57:59,480
I had a few months before I went to

998
00:58:06,980 --> 00:58:03,510
Buenos Aires when Alan invited me so I

999
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:06,990
used that to relearn enough Spanish that

1000
00:58:12,290 --> 00:58:10,110
I could speak one-on-one you did well by

1001
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:12,300
the way you did you did really well that

1002
00:58:16,910 --> 00:58:13,200
was impressive

1003
00:58:19,370 --> 00:58:16,920
well I love Spanish and I used to be

1004
00:58:22,460 --> 00:58:19,380
fluent in Spanish when I was when I was

1005
00:58:26,180 --> 00:58:22,470
a kid when I was 15 of course I forgot I

1006
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:26,190
forgotten a lot of the words but I still

1007
00:58:33,590 --> 00:58:29,370
love the language so I relearned enough

1008
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:33,600
of it that I could I could be alone with

1009
00:58:43,890 --> 00:58:40,999
tremendously about what Alan

1010
00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:43,900
there's something about being alone with

1011
00:58:51,690 --> 00:58:47,920
the witness and just getting getting

1012
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:51,700
into his space getting into the soul and

1013
00:58:58,049 --> 00:58:54,970
to his heart and and sharing things at

1014
00:58:59,880 --> 00:58:58,059
that level you can only do that if you

1015
00:59:02,220 --> 00:58:59,890
speak the same language then I'm very

1016
00:59:04,529 --> 00:59:02,230
frustrated when I'm for example in

1017
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:04,539
Brazil or in Russia because I can't do

1018
00:59:11,489 --> 00:59:08,650
that and so I wanted to be able to do

1019
00:59:14,279 --> 00:59:11,499
that with one so yes it was very

1020
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:14,289
emotional and yeah you'll see on the

1021
00:59:20,609 --> 00:59:16,210
moon in the movie I'm another very good

1022
00:59:24,779 --> 00:59:20,619
actor and I was awkward and I was you

1023
00:59:26,730 --> 00:59:24,789
know under a lot of emotion and I think

1024
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:26,740
that that shows up in the movie yeah

1025
00:59:32,009 --> 00:59:29,680
take me to that moment if you will

1026
00:59:36,299 --> 00:59:32,019
I want to ask Alan about that separately

1027
00:59:39,299 --> 00:59:36,309
but you guys have a moment that is

1028
00:59:45,870 --> 00:59:39,309
caught you guys are reunited after so

1029
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:45,880
many years and I'm reminded of the Juan

1030
00:59:52,529 --> 00:59:50,130
is now an adult right but he's still

1031
00:59:55,819 --> 00:59:52,539
right he's a big guy but he still has

1032
01:00:00,749 --> 00:59:55,829
the same face he still has the same eyes

1033
01:00:02,910 --> 01:00:00,759
and and you the reaction that both of

1034
01:00:06,180 --> 01:00:02,920
you said to each other at that moment

1035
01:00:08,279 --> 01:00:06,190
was was very honest take me through that

1036
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:08,289
moment what were you feeling emotionally

1037
01:00:17,009 --> 01:00:11,650
when you guys finally reconnected well

1038
01:00:20,039 --> 01:00:17,019
we embraced and to me it was not just

1039
01:00:22,380 --> 01:00:20,049
the memory of Juan but the memory of

1040
01:00:27,930 --> 01:00:22,390
everything that happened the first time

1041
01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:27,940
I was there and you know knowing knowing

1042
01:00:36,900 --> 01:00:33,369
that this summed up his entire

1043
01:00:42,499 --> 01:00:36,910
experience and he was very open and very

1044
01:00:48,140 --> 01:00:42,509
welcoming so it was easy but it also

1045
01:00:51,150 --> 01:00:48,150
brought up a lot of things I mean when

1046
01:00:55,050 --> 01:00:51,160
first time I was in Argentina again I

1047
01:00:58,720 --> 01:00:55,060
was with Shannon I was with my wife that

1048
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:58,730
and the feeling that she was with me

1049
01:01:04,359 --> 01:01:01,520
that this was something that she would

1050
01:01:07,300 --> 01:01:04,369
have wanted me to do too close too close

1051
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:07,310
that cycle too close that loop you said

1052
01:01:14,170 --> 01:01:11,359
the one you said you're grown-up but one

1053
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:14,180
turns to you and says you still look the

1054
01:01:27,099 --> 01:01:24,650
same you know we had a good time I don't

1055
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:27,109
want to give the impression that this

1056
01:01:32,050 --> 01:01:29,930
was just so emotional that you know

1057
01:01:34,990 --> 01:01:32,060
everybody was crying I mean we had a

1058
01:01:38,099 --> 01:01:35,000
good time it was a joyous for I think

1059
01:01:41,260 --> 01:01:38,109
for both of us I think it was a joyous

1060
01:01:42,430 --> 01:01:41,270
reunion it was the same thing with his

1061
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:42,440
family

1062
01:01:48,730 --> 01:01:45,650
you know his father was still alive his

1063
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:48,740
mother is still alive by the way what

1064
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:51,410
Alan said about his mother having had

1065
01:01:59,079 --> 01:01:55,010
experiences when when I met her she was

1066
01:02:01,930 --> 01:01:59,089
very quiet she was of course serving the

1067
01:02:03,940 --> 01:02:01,940
big lunch that we had you know the thing

1068
01:02:08,260 --> 01:02:03,950
they do in Argentina which is wonderful

1069
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,270
is when when somebody comes visit they

1070
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:10,640
have what they call in a shadow and of

1071
01:02:16,060 --> 01:02:12,650
course Argentina has the best meat in

1072
01:02:18,010 --> 01:02:16,070
the world and they put you know a bunch

1073
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:18,020
of tables together they invite all the

1074
01:02:24,670 --> 01:02:20,450
neighbors they invited you know the

1075
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:24,680
investigators who were with us and Fabio

1076
01:02:30,970 --> 01:02:27,650
selpa and his sons and the whole family

1077
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:30,980
was there and it was you know it was a

1078
01:02:37,900 --> 01:02:33,440
very joyous occasion

1079
01:02:41,020 --> 01:02:37,910
his father greeted us dressed in the

1080
01:02:45,339 --> 01:02:41,030
traditional Gaucho you know when I was

1081
01:02:47,380 --> 01:02:45,349
there the first time Gaucho clothing you

1082
01:02:49,890 --> 01:02:47,390
know with silver pesos on his belt I

1083
01:02:54,550 --> 01:02:49,900
mean it was very clear who was in charge

1084
01:02:58,750 --> 01:02:54,560
and any question that the kid would have

1085
01:03:01,060 --> 01:02:58,760
invented a story I mean that's when you

1086
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:01,070
met the father that was I was impossible

1087
01:03:06,220 --> 01:03:04,010
and again it was a joyous occasion also

1088
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:06,230
for the family in I think the great

1089
01:03:12,799 --> 01:03:08,010
thing that Alan did

1090
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:12,809
was reconciling you know making it

1091
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:19,010
possible for the family to greet one as

1092
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:22,319
part of the family again that this was

1093
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:26,010
this experience was extraordinary but it

1094
01:03:32,630 --> 01:03:28,410
was now recognized it was acknowledged

1095
01:03:35,059 --> 01:03:32,640
and I think that's that I I don't know

1096
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:35,069
if people see that in the movie it was

1097
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:37,049
very clear when we were there yeah it

1098
01:03:44,299 --> 01:03:42,210
again it was it was fun it'll be his

1099
01:03:49,130 --> 01:03:44,309
father had this this hat you know

1100
01:03:53,289 --> 01:03:49,140
traditional leather hat and I have a

1101
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:53,299
picture of him when I was there you know

1102
01:04:00,440 --> 01:03:57,930
35 years before wearing the same hat so

1103
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:00,450
I said Senor es el mismo sombrero you

1104
01:04:06,650 --> 01:04:03,450
know it is the same and he laughed and

1105
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:06,660
he said yes it's the same hat and you

1106
01:04:12,770 --> 01:04:09,210
know that was all of a sudden there was

1107
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:12,780
there was no distance there was no it

1108
01:04:17,359 --> 01:04:15,690
things were simple and there was I think

1109
01:04:18,170 --> 01:04:17,369
that's what I value in that kind of

1110
01:04:21,319 --> 01:04:18,180
experience

1111
01:04:27,170 --> 01:04:21,329
that's what about that extraordinary yes

1112
01:04:30,109 --> 01:04:27,180
and there was there was a change Alan I

1113
01:04:33,380 --> 01:04:30,119
have to ask you about this because you

1114
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:33,390
you met one early on you're making this

1115
01:04:40,700 --> 01:04:37,530
film and during the film you start to

1116
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:40,710
see a different one there's a one in the

1117
01:04:45,079 --> 01:04:42,210
beginning there's a one in the middle

1118
01:04:47,660 --> 01:04:45,089
and there's a one at the end there's a

1119
01:04:52,220 --> 01:04:47,670
transformation that happens with him and

1120
01:04:56,569 --> 01:04:52,230
I feel in the film it started with the

1121
01:04:59,990 --> 01:04:56,579
reuniting of of Jacques and Juan you see

1122
01:05:02,420 --> 01:05:00,000
this this change in him personally is is

1123
01:05:08,930 --> 01:05:02,430
that what you were capturing did you

1124
01:05:12,079 --> 01:05:08,940
feel that too because one of the things

1125
01:05:15,230 --> 01:05:12,089
that we did is to shoot this film in a

1126
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:15,240
whole year we didn't take like three

1127
01:05:19,309 --> 01:05:17,130
weeks or four weeks to make this

1128
01:05:21,770 --> 01:05:19,319
documentary and that's it because one of

1129
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:21,780
our mission was to help

1130
01:05:30,110 --> 01:05:26,250
so in order to help him we need time so

1131
01:05:32,210 --> 01:05:30,120
when when we received the the response

1132
01:05:34,310 --> 01:05:32,220
from Jack saying that he's coming to

1133
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:34,320
Argentina it was one of the best gift

1134
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:37,770
that I've ever had and the movie also

1135
01:05:43,970 --> 01:05:41,760
and the holes the whole script and the

1136
01:05:46,610 --> 01:05:43,980
whole movie change because now we have

1137
01:05:49,820 --> 01:05:46,620
like a one of the most important scene

1138
01:05:52,940 --> 01:05:49,830
is this reunion that I was very nervous

1139
01:05:58,490 --> 01:05:52,950
but then next sitting next to Jack

1140
01:06:00,380 --> 01:05:58,500
waiting two to one to come and we see

1141
01:06:02,900 --> 01:06:00,390
the whole transformation of one since

1142
01:06:07,460 --> 01:06:02,910
the beginning till the end because one

1143
01:06:10,780 --> 01:06:07,470
is when the movie is going when when you

1144
01:06:13,850 --> 01:06:10,790
are seeing the movie you are evolving

1145
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:13,860
next to one you are seeing that he's

1146
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:18,170
closing his his questions his doubts

1147
01:06:26,180 --> 01:06:21,810
also his nightmare because nightmares

1148
01:06:29,260 --> 01:06:26,190
because now he he understands why he had

1149
01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:29,270
those dream why he had that encounter

1150
01:06:34,850 --> 01:06:32,640
thanks to Jack thanks to dr. Nestor

1151
01:06:38,540 --> 01:06:34,860
Burlando the psychiatrist thanks to the

1152
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:38,550
shamans it's like he has now he has all

1153
01:06:47,420 --> 01:06:42,810
the pieces together and all the

1154
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:47,430
conclusions were like we didn't say like

1155
01:06:53,450 --> 01:06:50,610
1 what is happening to you is like blah

1156
01:06:56,900 --> 01:06:53,460
blah blah he made all those those

1157
01:07:00,650 --> 01:06:56,910
conclusion conclusions we we just like

1158
01:07:05,210 --> 01:07:00,660
brings all the pieces and the rest of

1159
01:07:08,620 --> 01:07:05,220
the game was up to him now I want to get

1160
01:07:14,300 --> 01:07:08,630
into some specifics about these visions

1161
01:07:17,530 --> 01:07:14,310
of the future that Juan was having we've

1162
01:07:22,700 --> 01:07:17,540
mentioned them a few times tonight but

1163
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:22,710
specifically what was reassuring is he

1164
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:27,930
was seeing a dark a darkness a dark dark

1165
01:07:34,530 --> 01:07:32,610
seen a dark wall a dark world he says

1166
01:07:37,380 --> 01:07:34,540
this over and over

1167
01:07:40,830 --> 01:07:37,390
and it's very traumatic not only as a

1168
01:07:43,470 --> 01:07:40,840
viewer of watching this film but for him

1169
01:07:45,420 --> 01:07:43,480
they were happening over and over again

1170
01:07:47,070 --> 01:07:45,430
certainly some of these answers happened

1171
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:47,080
in Paraguay we'll get to that in a

1172
01:07:54,660 --> 01:07:50,170
second but these visions what were they

1173
01:07:57,090 --> 01:07:54,670
Alan well it's hard for me to to answer

1174
01:08:00,840 --> 01:07:57,100
that question because it was really hard

1175
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:00,850
for me to understand it but I'd like to

1176
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:04,690
see the the those patients or the dream

1177
01:08:13,170 --> 01:08:08,050
world as a sign ball not a literal world

1178
01:08:17,309 --> 01:08:13,180
probably if we see the way we treat our

1179
01:08:21,030 --> 01:08:17,319
earth our nature that kind of vision is

1180
01:08:26,820 --> 01:08:21,040
not away from our reality of our present

1181
01:08:31,860 --> 01:08:26,830
time so one where was having didn't like

1182
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:31,870
the kind of dream very repeatedly and he

1183
01:08:38,220 --> 01:08:34,480
was really suffering because it's not a

1184
01:08:41,099 --> 01:08:38,230
good image to to have but one of the

1185
01:08:46,590 --> 01:08:41,109
things that I was really intrigued was

1186
01:08:50,430 --> 01:08:46,600
that the beings of his encounter were

1187
01:08:55,860 --> 01:08:50,440
the ones who were helping us as a human

1188
01:08:58,470 --> 01:08:55,870
as a humanity to be like separate from

1189
01:09:02,039 --> 01:08:58,480
the that thing that was coming towards

1190
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:02,049
so this kind of ships or beings were

1191
01:09:10,410 --> 01:09:06,010
helping us to stay safe from that storm

1192
01:09:16,170 --> 01:09:10,420
or that see a storm that was coming to

1193
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,180
to our earth and ending almost yeah and

1194
01:09:24,210 --> 01:09:18,880
ending like apocalypse right right

1195
01:09:27,390 --> 01:09:24,220
and the that aspect of it Jacques you

1196
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:27,400
have spoken about this in not only in

1197
01:09:32,579 --> 01:09:28,930
your books but your research in your

1198
01:09:36,870 --> 01:09:32,589
presentations over the years that there

1199
01:09:40,140 --> 01:09:36,880
is a very definite interdimensional

1200
01:09:43,740 --> 01:09:40,150
aspect to the UFO question it may not

1201
01:09:46,349 --> 01:09:43,750
necessarily be nuts and bolts and metal

1202
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:46,359
craft and flying saucers it's that too

1203
01:09:49,099 --> 01:09:46,650
is

1204
01:09:53,450 --> 01:09:49,109
well but there's an interdimensional

1205
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:53,460
aspect to this and with wands case and

1206
01:09:59,899 --> 01:09:56,850
his experiences for you this is exactly

1207
01:10:05,060 --> 01:09:59,909
what you've been researching right well

1208
01:10:08,899 --> 01:10:05,070
and if the case gives us the opportunity

1209
01:10:12,979 --> 01:10:08,909
to look at this in detail right in

1210
01:10:17,330 --> 01:10:12,989
through the school ones reactions there

1211
01:10:20,030 --> 01:10:17,340
is a scene that I hadn't really paid too

1212
01:10:22,010 --> 01:10:20,040
much attention to the first time but

1213
01:10:24,350 --> 01:10:22,020
when you see the movie again and by the

1214
01:10:26,419 --> 01:10:24,360
way we should tell people when they can

1215
01:10:30,890 --> 01:10:26,429
see the movie I mean it's going to be on

1216
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:30,900
Netflix at the 22nd of October right

1217
01:10:39,290 --> 01:10:34,170
yeah and it's going to be on other

1218
01:10:43,550 --> 01:10:39,300
networks or just takes on life on

1219
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:43,560
Netflix six months ahead but now it will

1220
01:10:51,140 --> 01:10:46,489
be live on all platforms iTunes Amazon

1221
01:10:52,970 --> 01:10:51,150
will be me on t-man etc yeah we've got

1222
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:52,980
all the links for it I announced it

1223
01:10:57,830 --> 01:10:54,690
earlier in the show and all the links

1224
01:11:03,649 --> 01:10:57,840
everybody are over at Jimmy Church radio

1225
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:03,659
calm so there's a scene where and I

1226
01:11:12,620 --> 01:11:07,440
think Alan was once there had at Juan's

1227
01:11:17,149 --> 01:11:12,630
home it was isolated cabin there and the

1228
01:11:20,930 --> 01:11:17,159
evening comes and one goes around the

1229
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:20,940
house that the cabin carefully closing

1230
01:11:28,130 --> 01:11:24,330
all the shutters and he doesn't go out

1231
01:11:30,140 --> 01:11:28,140
at night now this is a hunter this is a

1232
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:30,150
big guy he's not afraid of anything

1233
01:11:38,750 --> 01:11:34,050
he's got three hunting dogs you know he

1234
01:11:42,890 --> 01:11:38,760
kills animals for to feed himself to get

1235
01:11:45,860 --> 01:11:42,900
to meet his he's not somebody who is

1236
01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:45,870
afraid but here is almost like a child

1237
01:11:52,550 --> 01:11:48,719
going around carefully closing the

1238
01:11:57,050 --> 01:11:52,560
shutters and you hear some sounds

1239
01:12:00,060 --> 01:11:57,060
outside and it's you have a feeling that

1240
01:12:03,510 --> 01:12:00,070
something is permanently

1241
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:03,520
working around and that he's aware of it

1242
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:07,120
psychically aware of it and that's a

1243
01:12:16,980 --> 01:12:13,450
very interesting scene the you know the

1244
01:12:20,010 --> 01:12:16,990
the the reaction ones reaction to all

1245
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:20,020
that this is very complex because he

1246
01:12:26,940 --> 01:12:22,090
doesn't understand where it comes from

1247
01:12:29,550 --> 01:12:26,950
and there is so similar to so many close

1248
01:12:32,730 --> 01:12:29,560
encounter cases where you know as

1249
01:12:36,170 --> 01:12:32,740
scientists we try to measure things we

1250
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:36,180
try to interpret it of course is the

1251
01:12:42,540 --> 01:12:39,250
dominant theories and these are

1252
01:12:46,890 --> 01:12:42,550
spaceships that come from you know from

1253
01:12:49,950 --> 01:12:46,900
a planet somewhere and how can it be so

1254
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:49,960
intimate and so close to us and so ready

1255
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:53,130
to jump out you know of the light

1256
01:12:58,830 --> 01:12:55,890
spontaneously in in a place like that

1257
01:13:01,740 --> 01:12:58,840
you know this is not like the nimitz

1258
01:13:04,020 --> 01:13:01,750
this is not should apologize you know

1259
01:13:06,270 --> 01:13:04,030
with that story it doesn't have all the

1260
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:06,280
things that people expect it does it I

1261
01:13:09,690 --> 01:13:09,130
mean the CIA isn't there there is no

1262
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:09,700
cover-up

1263
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:12,810
there is no aircraft carrier there is no

1264
01:13:19,650 --> 01:13:16,480
you know no f-18 sitting around there is

1265
01:13:23,660 --> 01:13:19,660
no infrared camera there is no recording

1266
01:13:27,390 --> 01:13:23,670
of anything it's just one man who is

1267
01:13:30,420 --> 01:13:27,400
dealing with this in his life and in his

1268
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:30,430
environment but in a way it's 10 times

1269
01:13:36,270 --> 01:13:33,490
more powerful it's strong ten times more

1270
01:13:40,190 --> 01:13:36,280
powerful because you you you feel that

1271
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:40,200
presence which is really all around us

1272
01:13:48,150 --> 01:13:43,930
it's not just you know one case here in

1273
01:13:51,180 --> 01:13:48,160
one case there it's a you know and the

1274
01:13:54,030 --> 01:13:51,190
best way I can explain it and it's only

1275
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:54,040
a metaphor it's not the physical theory

1276
01:14:00,150 --> 01:13:56,800
so you know don't don't blame me for it

1277
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:00,160
but it it is as if there was another

1278
01:14:06,330 --> 01:14:03,370
universe in another dimension coming

1279
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:06,340
close and interpenetrating with us and

1280
01:14:12,750 --> 01:14:09,490
when it does it is physical it it leaves

1281
01:14:13,740 --> 01:14:12,760
traces it hurts people or sometimes it

1282
01:14:18,300 --> 01:14:13,750
helps them

1283
01:14:21,510 --> 01:14:18,310
there's another aspect to this - Alan I

1284
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:21,520
wanted to ask you about the way that you

1285
01:14:28,020 --> 01:14:25,210
presented the first encounter or Juan's

1286
01:14:32,010 --> 01:14:28,030
encounter with the with the craft in

1287
01:14:36,030 --> 01:14:32,020
front of him and the beings there's you

1288
01:14:38,910 --> 01:14:36,040
present them in as as light beings

1289
01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:38,920
almost and that the craft isn't quite

1290
01:14:46,650 --> 01:14:42,480
physical it's not a shiny metal

1291
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:46,660
situation it's it's almost glowing or

1292
01:14:52,470 --> 01:14:50,290
transparent I wanted to ask was that the

1293
01:14:57,330 --> 01:14:52,480
way that one has always described this

1294
01:15:00,060 --> 01:14:57,340
in the past no not the shape and I think

1295
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:00,070
North is this being because it's really

1296
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:05,440
hard to to recreate as the way that one

1297
01:15:12,210 --> 01:15:09,330
described it and rather than to be

1298
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:12,220
literally with the with the reports of

1299
01:15:20,550 --> 01:15:15,970
one I prefer to to try to not to show

1300
01:15:25,950 --> 01:15:20,560
the phenomenon to be like very blurry

1301
01:15:29,250 --> 01:15:25,960
barely very glow because I didn't want

1302
01:15:35,610 --> 01:15:29,260
to the audience or the spectators gets

1303
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:35,620
any specific idea of of a shape or yeah

1304
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:38,880
mostly of what kind of Shame shape that

1305
01:15:45,090 --> 01:15:42,370
could could this phenomenon have so I

1306
01:15:49,380 --> 01:15:45,100
prefer to stay a little bit away from

1307
01:15:54,900 --> 01:15:49,390
from that and rather than to be specific

1308
01:15:59,040 --> 01:15:54,910
or literally with the with one's report

1309
01:16:01,890 --> 01:15:59,050
I prefer to to be more abstract rather

1310
01:16:04,950 --> 01:16:01,900
than concrete I got you I got you

1311
01:16:11,220 --> 01:16:04,960
and Jacque when you first interviewed

1312
01:16:14,790 --> 01:16:11,230
Juan did he did he describe an ascension

1313
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:14,800
or a descending aspect of the craft did

1314
01:16:27,330 --> 01:16:17,290
he see at land did he see a take-off did

1315
01:16:36,490 --> 01:16:32,229
but remember he was in very thick sort

1316
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:36,500
of cloud of fog and everything was sort

1317
01:16:44,410 --> 01:16:40,250
of translucent as Alan has shown very

1318
01:16:47,589 --> 01:16:44,420
well he couldn't see the entire shape he

1319
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:47,599
only saw that opening and the ladder and

1320
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:50,000
of course when he went in he saw inside

1321
01:17:00,129 --> 01:16:57,920
that like that circle room when when he

1322
01:17:04,709 --> 01:17:00,139
came when he came out there was a

1323
01:17:09,689 --> 01:17:04,719
feeling the communication seemed to be

1324
01:17:13,540 --> 01:17:09,699
words that appeared in his brain so it

1325
01:17:17,620 --> 01:17:13,550
it wasn't a verbal communication but it

1326
01:17:19,390 --> 01:17:17,630
was formulated in words and ideas that

1327
01:17:24,490 --> 01:17:19,400
appeared in his brain as if it was

1328
01:17:26,470 --> 01:17:24,500
really a telepathic channel and there

1329
01:17:30,459 --> 01:17:26,480
was a feeling that they had to take off

1330
01:17:33,220 --> 01:17:30,469
so I know this is not really a reduction

1331
01:17:35,379 --> 01:17:33,230
because this kid you know climbed that

1332
01:17:37,450 --> 01:17:35,389
ladder to go see what was inside and

1333
01:17:40,990 --> 01:17:37,460
when he got the idea that they were

1334
01:17:43,709 --> 01:17:41,000
going to take off he left so it's in a

1335
01:17:46,270 --> 01:17:43,719
way the reverse of an abduction okay and

1336
01:17:49,149 --> 01:17:46,280
you have to keep your sense of humor

1337
01:17:52,689 --> 01:17:49,159
about this because it's so bizarre but

1338
01:17:56,189 --> 01:17:52,699
it's bizarre because it's true and he

1339
01:18:00,339 --> 01:17:56,199
goes down the ladder he gets a horse

1340
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:00,349
untied the the tool being is at the foot

1341
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:03,770
of the ladder and they have a final

1342
01:18:11,140 --> 01:18:07,040
communication the two of them and then

1343
01:18:12,700 --> 01:18:11,150
he gets on the horse goes into writing

1344
01:18:17,740 --> 01:18:12,710
to the Frog and the thing takes off

1345
01:18:21,580 --> 01:18:17,750
behind him and and let's see the end of

1346
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:21,590
the of the episode as as its recounted

1347
01:18:26,109 --> 01:18:24,290
on this on the film and I think it's

1348
01:18:28,870 --> 01:18:26,119
described very well yeah it is and

1349
01:18:31,540 --> 01:18:28,880
there's one before we take our last

1350
01:18:37,030 --> 01:18:31,550
break here there was one thing that wand

1351
01:18:39,149 --> 01:18:37,040
says that is is fascinating he he says

1352
01:18:44,189 --> 01:18:39,159
that the beings told him

1353
01:18:47,459 --> 01:18:44,199
go back to work right what what what an

1354
01:18:51,449 --> 01:18:47,469
amazing statement that they're here

1355
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:51,459
they're here doing business talking

1356
01:18:57,479 --> 01:18:55,090
about et that they're here working that

1357
01:19:03,179 --> 01:18:57,489
was just fascinating to me Jacque do you

1358
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:03,189
have a comment on that or Alan no I you

1359
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:08,530
know that's what he said yeah no comment

1360
01:19:12,179 --> 01:19:11,050
Yeah right exactly I just remember

1361
01:19:15,179 --> 01:19:12,189
sitting back home and well that's

1362
01:19:18,569 --> 01:19:15,189
exactly how it went down right there

1363
01:19:21,209 --> 01:19:18,579
isn't any fantastical we're here to give

1364
01:19:23,250 --> 01:19:21,219
you technology or we're here to share

1365
01:19:27,929 --> 01:19:23,260
you know we're here to bring you into

1366
01:19:32,759 --> 01:19:27,939
the Federation of the universe well here

1367
01:19:35,250 --> 01:19:32,769
working we gotta go they were all

1368
01:19:37,319 --> 01:19:35,260
business let's say let's take a break

1369
01:19:40,049 --> 01:19:37,329
and we'll come back and wrap this a

1370
01:19:42,629 --> 01:19:40,059
fascinating conversation tonight this is

1371
01:19:44,459 --> 01:19:42,639
fade to black our guest Alan's Dibble

1372
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:44,469
Minh and Jacques Vallee talking about

1373
01:19:50,399 --> 01:19:47,650
the new film it is out October 22nd

1374
01:19:55,350 --> 01:19:50,409
witness of another world this is fade to

1375
01:20:06,489 --> 01:20:04,350
[Music]

1376
01:20:08,890 --> 01:20:06,499
welcome back fade to black

1377
01:20:12,129 --> 01:20:08,900
our guest tonight Alan Stillman and

1378
01:20:14,739 --> 01:20:12,139
Jacques valet talking about their new

1379
01:20:17,770 --> 01:20:14,749
film it is witness of another world out

1380
01:20:20,410 --> 01:20:17,780
October 22nd and all the streaming

1381
01:20:25,989 --> 01:20:20,420
services the links are over at Jimmy

1382
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:25,999
Church radio.com now let's this is now

1383
01:20:32,890 --> 01:20:30,050
we're going to go into act 3 and Jack I

1384
01:20:36,450 --> 01:20:32,900
wanted to ask you one direct question

1385
01:20:41,859 --> 01:20:36,460
and that is you know the hero's journey

1386
01:20:44,589 --> 01:20:41,869
right and where you have a beginning in

1387
01:20:47,620 --> 01:20:44,599
the middle and an end to the hero's

1388
01:20:52,290 --> 01:20:47,630
journey and this is playing out for all

1389
01:20:58,680 --> 01:20:52,300
of us with Juan Perez isn't it well it

1390
01:21:02,830 --> 01:20:58,690
it's the sort of initiation as well and

1391
01:21:07,509 --> 01:21:02,840
Alan shows that very well in in the

1392
01:21:12,959 --> 01:21:07,519
movie that you know he's really a granny

1393
01:21:19,450 --> 01:21:12,969
kid but he was never formally initiated

1394
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:19,460
in in his tradition and Alan did

1395
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:27,729
reintroduce him to that tradition by

1396
01:21:34,029 --> 01:21:30,530
taking him before the the elders of the

1397
01:21:37,500 --> 01:21:34,039
tribe and completing that journey for

1398
01:21:43,419 --> 01:21:37,510
him and yes so it is or hero's journey

1399
01:21:47,979 --> 01:21:43,429
but it is in a way it's more because he

1400
01:21:51,219 --> 01:21:47,989
carries that I think he's less afraid

1401
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:51,229
now he's more reconciled to what

1402
01:21:57,399 --> 01:21:55,010
happened to him he sees that he is not

1403
01:21:59,979 --> 01:21:57,409
the only one who had the experience at

1404
01:22:02,950 --> 01:21:59,989
other people you know including people

1405
01:22:06,509 --> 01:22:02,960
from the United States are puzzled by

1406
01:22:12,219 --> 01:22:06,519
the same mystery that he is dealing with

1407
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:12,229
but but now he is dealing with it as as

1408
01:22:17,390 --> 01:22:15,090
an initiated adult

1409
01:22:21,890 --> 01:22:17,400
before we get to that Jacques I wanted

1410
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:21,900
to ask you you had to reach a point with

1411
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:23,970
with Juan to shake his hand and say

1412
01:22:32,210 --> 01:22:27,210
goodbye again how did you approach that

1413
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:32,220
that was very funny

1414
01:22:40,940 --> 01:22:38,010
and I think it's not on the film

1415
01:22:44,660 --> 01:22:40,950
maybe we should Alan should make another

1416
01:22:47,750 --> 01:22:44,670
movie about things like that we we had a

1417
01:22:51,650 --> 01:22:47,760
reunion with his family so we had a

1418
01:22:54,410 --> 01:22:51,660
chance to speak with his sisters and you

1419
01:22:59,810 --> 01:22:54,420
know and again the father as I said and

1420
01:23:04,370 --> 01:22:59,820
with his mother and I wanted to give him

1421
01:23:07,940 --> 01:23:04,380
something that would be unique and I had

1422
01:23:11,060 --> 01:23:07,950
a coin that was a copy of a very old

1423
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:11,070
French coin that shows the UFO in the

1424
01:23:22,700 --> 01:23:16,890
sky and I gave him that and I explained

1425
01:23:29,060 --> 01:23:22,710
to him what it was and he wanted to give

1426
01:23:34,100 --> 01:23:29,070
me something so in return and he gave me

1427
01:23:35,930 --> 01:23:34,110
his hunting knife his hunting knife you

1428
01:23:39,050 --> 01:23:35,940
have to understand that these people

1429
01:23:42,050 --> 01:23:39,060
don't have any money so when he needs a

1430
01:23:44,630 --> 01:23:42,060
knife he finds a piece of metal that he

1431
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:44,640
can shape into a knife and he's going to

1432
01:23:51,710 --> 01:23:47,690
put a handle on it and he found a blade

1433
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:51,720
from a windmill that had broken up and

1434
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:53,810
he took that blade and turned it into

1435
01:23:59,960 --> 01:23:57,120
really a formidable knife I mean the the

1436
01:24:02,600 --> 01:23:59,970
knife was about 18 inches long and it

1437
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:02,610
was very sharp it was really his hunting

1438
01:24:09,310 --> 01:24:06,330
knife and I had to explain to him that

1439
01:24:13,010 --> 01:24:09,320
you know this was a very beautiful gift

1440
01:24:16,610 --> 01:24:13,020
but in Miami I was going to go through

1441
01:24:20,180 --> 01:24:16,620
US Customs Christ and they probably

1442
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:20,190
wouldn't like to see me you know

1443
01:24:28,350 --> 01:24:25,170
traveling with a hunting knife and so I

1444
01:24:31,950 --> 01:24:28,360
I asked him as politely as I could

1445
01:24:35,790 --> 01:24:31,960
if it could give me something else and

1446
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:35,800
he gave me his canteen you know when he

1447
01:24:40,230 --> 01:24:38,050
goes out hunting he goes out for three

1448
01:24:42,900 --> 01:24:40,240
days and three nights into the forest

1449
01:24:45,020 --> 01:24:42,910
and by the way there is a an episode

1450
01:24:48,660 --> 01:24:45,030
there that we should ask Alan about

1451
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:48,670
because it is also extraordinary the

1452
01:24:59,150 --> 01:24:53,850
vision he had in the forest but he was

1453
01:25:02,550 --> 01:24:59,160
hunting a white pig at one time that

1454
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:02,560
charged against him and his dogs and

1455
01:25:11,460 --> 01:25:08,410
that that pig that Y pig killed two of

1456
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:11,470
his dogs hmm and he finally killed the

1457
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:15,090
you know the boar and he thought that

1458
01:25:21,810 --> 01:25:18,490
this was of course very tragic and

1459
01:25:25,230 --> 01:25:21,820
emotional for him so he decided to skin

1460
01:25:28,170 --> 01:25:25,240
the boar and he put the fur around his

1461
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:28,180
canteen and I still have it with the

1462
01:25:34,470 --> 01:25:30,730
little tail of the boar and in the fur

1463
01:25:38,700 --> 01:25:34,480
and it's it's a very strange object it's

1464
01:25:40,530 --> 01:25:38,710
a very unique object I wasn't sure I

1465
01:25:42,930 --> 01:25:40,540
could bring it back into the United

1466
01:25:47,310 --> 01:25:42,940
States but you know I mean it's just a

1467
01:25:49,350 --> 01:25:47,320
white pig so it wasn't a rare animal and

1468
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:49,360
so I brought it back and I still have it

1469
01:25:56,550 --> 01:25:52,930
here with me and so that's how we taught

1470
01:25:59,910 --> 01:25:56,560
it and it was it was very friendly it

1471
01:26:04,830 --> 01:25:59,920
was very open it was very warm and and

1472
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:04,840
in the end it was very funny Alan you

1473
01:26:10,290 --> 01:26:08,080
take we're gonna save the ending and

1474
01:26:14,750 --> 01:26:10,300
everything else for everybody when they

1475
01:26:19,020 --> 01:26:14,760
go and watch the film but you you take

1476
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:19,030
Juan Perez to a Paraguay now ahead had

1477
01:26:28,620 --> 01:26:21,130
one at that point had a been outside of

1478
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:28,630
Argentina Argentina it's a country that

1479
01:26:37,500 --> 01:26:33,970
it's mostly a dizziness the the official

1480
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:37,510
language is Warren E and their roots

1481
01:26:50,870 --> 01:26:45,870
and and and you take one there for a

1482
01:26:53,970 --> 01:26:50,880
ceremony yeah indeed it was one of the

1483
01:26:58,200 --> 01:26:53,980
one of the ideas that I had at the

1484
01:27:03,240 --> 01:26:58,210
beginning of the of this project because

1485
01:27:07,650 --> 01:27:03,250
I felt that one got like like initiation

1486
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:07,660
because at the age of twelve he had this

1487
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:10,330
experience at the 12th it's a very

1488
01:27:16,290 --> 01:27:13,810
important year for for everyone but

1489
01:27:20,970 --> 01:27:16,300
especially for the indigenous culture

1490
01:27:27,060 --> 01:27:20,980
it's day is the ear or the age that you

1491
01:27:30,690 --> 01:27:27,070
become a grown man it so one accident

1492
01:27:31,820 --> 01:27:30,700
and accidentally he had like right rite

1493
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:31,830
of passage

1494
01:27:40,830 --> 01:27:36,400
thanks to this this encounter and one of

1495
01:27:42,870 --> 01:27:40,840
the ideas was to make the mythical I the

1496
01:27:48,150 --> 01:27:42,880
mythical ie it's a ritual

1497
01:27:52,650 --> 01:27:48,160
thou that once had the after three days

1498
01:27:55,890 --> 01:27:52,660
of dancing and singing you get your

1499
01:27:59,670 --> 01:27:55,900
einer name your spiritual name because

1500
01:28:03,000 --> 01:27:59,680
for the N you have everyone has like two

1501
01:28:06,420 --> 01:28:03,010
names the exterior name like our name

1502
01:28:09,450 --> 01:28:06,430
and they earn your name I will say that

1503
01:28:11,790 --> 01:28:09,460
don't don't don't say the name let

1504
01:28:14,790 --> 01:28:11,800
everybody go and watch the film because

1505
01:28:18,480 --> 01:28:14,800
I couldn't wait for that moment to

1506
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:18,490
happen now the okay so well we'll save

1507
01:28:25,170 --> 01:28:21,490
all of that for everybody to go watch in

1508
01:28:27,630 --> 01:28:25,180
the film what I am interested in I you

1509
01:28:30,900 --> 01:28:27,640
know say the big reveal right because as

1510
01:28:35,190 --> 01:28:30,910
an extraordinary ending but tell me

1511
01:28:37,830 --> 01:28:35,200
about wands interactions that went on

1512
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:37,840
there with the shamans that isn't in the

1513
01:28:44,580 --> 01:28:41,410
film did he have an opportunity to ask

1514
01:28:48,870 --> 01:28:44,590
questions about his visions and and did

1515
01:28:52,110 --> 01:28:48,880
he get answers from them yes there were

1516
01:28:54,409 --> 01:28:52,120
some times but one was mainly focused on

1517
01:28:57,850 --> 01:28:54,419
the interaction with the

1518
01:29:02,179 --> 01:28:57,860
with the boys with the girls with the

1519
01:29:05,259 --> 01:29:02,189
with the the old the old guys that were

1520
01:29:08,569 --> 01:29:05,269
from from that community it was really

1521
01:29:12,859 --> 01:29:08,579
for me it was very emotional to see him

1522
01:29:16,509 --> 01:29:12,869
interacting because it felt that he was

1523
01:29:19,729 --> 01:29:16,519
like recovering one part of his soul

1524
01:29:23,419 --> 01:29:19,739
interacting with them he took off his

1525
01:29:27,859 --> 01:29:23,429
shoes started to work on the land on the

1526
01:29:31,399 --> 01:29:27,869
ground like like he belongs to that

1527
01:29:35,359 --> 01:29:31,409
community for a long long time and the

1528
01:29:38,509 --> 01:29:35,369
welcoming was very very powerful because

1529
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:38,519
the elder Francisco the grandfather

1530
01:29:45,139 --> 01:29:41,610
Francisco told all the community that

1531
01:29:50,659 --> 01:29:45,149
everyone has to be with one at all times

1532
01:29:56,689 --> 01:29:50,669
no one couldn't be alone in any minute

1533
01:30:00,109 --> 01:29:56,699
so you use the I saw one interacting

1534
01:30:04,790 --> 01:30:00,119
with with all the community at all times

1535
01:30:08,839 --> 01:30:04,800
and he had the opportunity to ask about

1536
01:30:11,959 --> 01:30:08,849
his visions about his dreams and for

1537
01:30:16,189 --> 01:30:11,969
them this kind of supernatural things

1538
01:30:22,639 --> 01:30:16,199
are pretty common they are not scared of

1539
01:30:26,779 --> 01:30:22,649
any kind of like they are not afraid of

1540
01:30:29,719 --> 01:30:26,789
the unknown and they just try to help

1541
01:30:34,339 --> 01:30:29,729
him in a way that he can understand it

1542
01:30:37,909 --> 01:30:34,349
by saying like for example his

1543
01:30:41,589 --> 01:30:37,919
grandfather the grandfather of one was

1544
01:30:46,250 --> 01:30:41,599
the only one that had the Warren II

1545
01:30:50,359 --> 01:30:46,260
roots on his blood so he passed away

1546
01:30:54,049 --> 01:30:50,369
when one was 10 years old so one was

1547
01:30:59,029 --> 01:30:54,059
really really really alone but that time

1548
01:31:03,469 --> 01:30:59,039
he was asking himself questions that for

1549
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:03,479
example what is life white this happened

1550
01:31:07,970 --> 01:31:06,090
to me why my my grandfather died and

1551
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:07,980
they grandfa reference

1552
01:31:14,990 --> 01:31:11,489
sisqó told one that but that time one

1553
01:31:18,830 --> 01:31:15,000
was finding himself was trying to find

1554
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:18,840
himself by asking this kind of questions

1555
01:31:27,290 --> 01:31:23,370
probably in an unconscious level and

1556
01:31:29,810 --> 01:31:27,300
suddenly he had an answer by the it was

1557
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:29,820
a supernatural answer it was the

1558
01:31:36,020 --> 01:31:33,690
spiritual word came to him in a bizarre

1559
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:36,030
way with two beings that he couldn't

1560
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:38,610
understand he couldn't integrate that

1561
01:31:45,500 --> 01:31:42,090
experience and the gift that he had

1562
01:31:48,970 --> 01:31:45,510
after it because one had this

1563
01:31:52,130 --> 01:31:48,980
premonition dreams so after 40 years

1564
01:31:55,550 --> 01:31:52,140
thanks to this journey that we made with

1565
01:31:58,490 --> 01:31:55,560
the film he could now integrate the

1566
01:32:04,580 --> 01:31:58,500
whole experience that he had 40 years

1567
01:32:07,820 --> 01:32:04,590
ago there's one I want everybody that

1568
01:32:11,180 --> 01:32:07,830
watches this film to remember what I am

1569
01:32:15,910 --> 01:32:11,190
going to say now in the beginning of the

1570
01:32:20,260 --> 01:32:15,920
film I want you to look into Juan's eyes

1571
01:32:25,490 --> 01:32:20,270
because at the end of the film his eyes

1572
01:32:29,420 --> 01:32:25,500
change at the end of the film he is that

1573
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:29,430
they are bright they are alive and and

1574
01:32:36,020 --> 01:32:32,610
you get to experience and and see that

1575
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:36,030
in this film Alan did you see the same

1576
01:32:42,590 --> 01:32:38,970
thing did you see his eyes were just

1577
01:32:45,650 --> 01:32:42,600
vivid at the end of the film yeah yeah

1578
01:32:49,250 --> 01:32:45,660
yeah it's a different man and I was

1579
01:32:52,100 --> 01:32:49,260
really people I was pretty joy because I

1580
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:52,110
was part of this transformation I was

1581
01:32:59,750 --> 01:32:56,489
like the bridge that could help to want

1582
01:33:02,540 --> 01:32:59,760
to close that circle and I know that

1583
01:33:05,630 --> 01:33:02,550
chucks will agree with me that everyone

1584
01:33:12,350 --> 01:33:05,640
that was involved in in that movie

1585
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:12,360
closed some circles of our life it's

1586
01:33:20,379 --> 01:33:15,930
incredible incredible to see and for you

1587
01:33:23,649 --> 01:33:20,389
shock for as long as you've known one

1588
01:33:25,689 --> 01:33:23,659
that true that transition was there

1589
01:33:30,340 --> 01:33:25,699
right did you see it in his eyes at the

1590
01:33:35,379 --> 01:33:30,350
end of the film I I wasn't part of the

1591
01:33:41,140 --> 01:33:35,389
trip to Paraguay but already when there

1592
01:33:47,189 --> 01:33:41,150
is a scene where we're all around one in

1593
01:33:52,330 --> 01:33:47,199
in the country and you know drinking and

1594
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:52,340
and talking and Hollin in right

1595
01:34:00,419 --> 01:33:56,090
want to come to that initiation in

1596
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:00,429
Paraguay and in in that moment you see

1597
01:34:11,109 --> 01:34:05,690
already that one has changed is much

1598
01:34:14,709 --> 01:34:11,119
clearer is much happier you you see it

1599
01:34:17,470 --> 01:34:14,719
in his just in the way he handles

1600
01:34:19,689 --> 01:34:17,480
himself he smiles for the first time

1601
01:34:22,270 --> 01:34:19,699
during that scene by the way and yeah

1602
01:34:28,859 --> 01:34:22,280
yeah I agree with you and he also calls

1603
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:28,869
Alan the big man that is a great scene

1604
01:34:34,660 --> 01:34:34,130
and okay now let's let's shift gears a

1605
01:34:37,959 --> 01:34:34,670
little bit

1606
01:34:42,570 --> 01:34:37,969
Jacques while I I have you for a few

1607
01:34:47,649 --> 01:34:42,580
more minutes here you you go back now

1608
01:34:53,109 --> 01:34:47,659
we're talking for five decades of UFO

1609
01:34:55,419 --> 01:34:53,119
research and today I think that we're at

1610
01:34:58,899 --> 01:34:55,429
a little bit of a tipping point at the

1611
01:35:03,790 --> 01:34:58,909
door is cracked open with this subject

1612
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:03,800
like never before did you ever feel that

1613
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:05,570
you know going back to you know the

1614
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:07,730
early 70s to where we are today it's

1615
01:35:17,020 --> 01:35:12,530
2019 where the world not just the United

1616
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:17,030
States but around the world now this is

1617
01:35:24,729 --> 01:35:21,170
a global situation that this subject now

1618
01:35:26,830 --> 01:35:24,739
is is freely discussed without cueing

1619
01:35:29,050 --> 01:35:26,840
the x-files music and people making

1620
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:29,060
jokes did you ever think that we would

1621
01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:31,610
be at this point how do you feel about

1622
01:35:43,090 --> 01:35:32,370
that

1623
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:43,100
I I'm of two minds on this yes the

1624
01:35:50,990 --> 01:35:46,650
subject is now more accepted now

1625
01:35:55,970 --> 01:35:51,000
remember we've gone to the moon with

1626
01:35:59,230 --> 01:35:55,980
we're going to go back the the idea of

1627
01:36:02,750 --> 01:35:59,240
life in the universe is much more open

1628
01:36:06,700 --> 01:36:02,760
what I'm afraid of is that the public

1629
01:36:10,250 --> 01:36:06,710
will be captured by some easy answers

1630
01:36:12,710 --> 01:36:10,260
now that people are looking at say oh

1631
01:36:16,850 --> 01:36:12,720
yeah well so we knew it all along you

1632
01:36:20,420 --> 01:36:16,860
know it was its beings from another star

1633
01:36:24,370 --> 01:36:20,430
somewhere and I'm really afraid of that

1634
01:36:30,430 --> 01:36:24,380
I you know people talk about disclosure

1635
01:36:35,030 --> 01:36:30,440
the question is disclosure on what to me

1636
01:36:39,500 --> 01:36:35,040
there is no need for any announcement

1637
01:36:43,430 --> 01:36:39,510
from the White House so Oh anybody else

1638
01:36:48,530 --> 01:36:43,440
the phenomenon the witnesses know that

1639
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:48,540
the phenomenon Israel and we have to be

1640
01:36:54,140 --> 01:36:51,210
very careful not to jump to promote

1641
01:36:58,030 --> 01:36:54,150
premature answers for two easy answers

1642
01:37:01,160 --> 01:36:58,040
because it's not easy well you know how

1643
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:01,170
the UFO community and all of the

1644
01:37:08,570 --> 01:37:04,530
researchers out there look up to you

1645
01:37:10,670 --> 01:37:08,580
Jacque and and and and listen to your

1646
01:37:12,890 --> 01:37:10,680
your words and they listen very

1647
01:37:16,190 --> 01:37:12,900
carefully but I know that you're also

1648
01:37:19,460 --> 01:37:16,200
very aware that those of us myself

1649
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:19,470
included in the UFO community we all say

1650
01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:21,810
you know Jacques Jacques got the real

1651
01:37:31,430 --> 01:37:27,170
stuff Jacques Jacques knows things and

1652
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:31,440
he said to you if you remember we were

1653
01:37:36,620 --> 01:37:34,130
backstage and you and I were alone and

1654
01:37:38,060 --> 01:37:36,630
and I tried to get some of these answers

1655
01:37:39,140 --> 01:37:38,070
out of you privately

1656
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:39,150
and

1657
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:43,530
do you do you have those secrets that

1658
01:37:48,830 --> 01:37:46,320
that that are rumored out there about

1659
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:48,840
Jacques Vallee is there something that

1660
01:37:57,589 --> 01:37:52,610
you know that that you want us to know

1661
01:37:58,339 --> 01:37:57,599
what what I know that is very precious

1662
01:38:01,029 --> 01:37:58,349
to me

1663
01:38:05,299 --> 01:38:01,039
is what I've learned from witnesses

1664
01:38:09,319 --> 01:38:05,309
again I've trained myself over the years

1665
01:38:11,450 --> 01:38:09,329
to listen better and better not to come

1666
01:38:14,569 --> 01:38:11,460
to them with preconceived ideas but to

1667
01:38:17,810 --> 01:38:14,579
really listen to them and to try to

1668
01:38:20,180 --> 01:38:17,820
share in the experience remember that I

1669
01:38:22,279 --> 01:38:20,190
had a sighting when I was fifteen and

1670
01:38:25,370 --> 01:38:22,289
there were two other witnesses there's

1671
01:38:28,220 --> 01:38:25,380
no question that thing was there I was

1672
01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:28,230
not close to it but I've never forgotten

1673
01:38:36,410 --> 01:38:32,610
that and I I think that's what complete

1674
01:38:40,490 --> 01:38:36,420
use to guide me and I want to I don't

1675
01:38:43,129 --> 01:38:40,500
want to be influenced by people assuming

1676
01:38:47,089 --> 01:38:43,139
that I have these answers and so on I'm

1677
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:47,099
not preaching anything I'm not selling

1678
01:38:53,180 --> 01:38:50,489
anything and by the way I think in terms

1679
01:38:55,879 --> 01:38:53,190
of full disclosure I have no financial

1680
01:39:03,439 --> 01:38:55,889
interest in this movie this is Allen's

1681
01:39:05,839 --> 01:39:03,449
movie I really wanted to it so it was

1682
01:39:09,609 --> 01:39:05,849
almost a magical thing for me that Allen

1683
01:39:12,979 --> 01:39:09,619
has offered me it was an incredible gift

1684
01:39:15,140 --> 01:39:12,989
to have the opportunity to you know to

1685
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:15,150
reconnect with one and with my own

1686
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:20,250
emotions at the time and and I didn't

1687
01:39:26,750 --> 01:39:22,530
want that to have anything to do with in

1688
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:26,760
a financial interest whatsoever you know

1689
01:39:35,510 --> 01:39:29,280
I make a living in Silicon Valley and

1690
01:39:37,490 --> 01:39:35,520
you know I am fortunate to be able to to

1691
01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:37,500
live the life I want

1692
01:39:44,990 --> 01:39:42,090
I really wanted to have no try to this

1693
01:39:47,629 --> 01:39:45,000
movie other than you know the incredible

1694
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:47,639
friendship then I've developed with Alan

1695
01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:50,610
and my respect for what it does as an

1696
01:39:56,470 --> 01:39:52,050
artist

1697
01:39:59,930 --> 01:39:56,480
and and the the connection to that land

1698
01:40:04,010 --> 01:39:59,940
one thing is that you know that part of

1699
01:40:09,010 --> 01:40:04,020
Argentina is pretty dull is very flat it

1700
01:40:12,410 --> 01:40:09,020
gets in updated when there is rain and

1701
01:40:15,290 --> 01:40:12,420
Alan has managed to bring out the magic

1702
01:40:19,190 --> 01:40:15,300
of it and that you know when when you've

1703
01:40:23,620 --> 01:40:19,200
been there that that magic is is

1704
01:40:26,690 --> 01:40:23,630
absolutely wonderful so it was you know

1705
01:40:31,370 --> 01:40:26,700
it it was an incredible experience for

1706
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:31,380
me Alan is there another chapter to Juan

1707
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:35,610
Perez is there other places that you can

1708
01:40:44,810 --> 01:40:39,810
go with this story well yes absolutely

1709
01:40:50,300 --> 01:40:44,820
yes because after two years that we

1710
01:40:54,620 --> 01:40:50,310
finished the shooting we keep doing some

1711
01:40:59,290 --> 01:40:54,630
research on one one also we practice one

1712
01:41:03,290 --> 01:40:59,300
regression on one and one started to

1713
01:41:05,540 --> 01:41:03,300
recover some lost memories that he had

1714
01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:05,550
and we all stole fun

1715
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:09,090
found out that it wasn't not his they

1716
01:41:16,490 --> 01:41:12,450
the case of his 12 years old it was not

1717
01:41:19,190 --> 01:41:16,500
his first the only case that he yes he

1718
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:19,200
also had two other cases when he was 40

1719
01:41:28,310 --> 01:41:24,810
and another one when he was 45 so as a

1720
01:41:32,780 --> 01:41:28,320
shark said we we need to see these

1721
01:41:36,500 --> 01:41:32,790
witnesses as a whole us in the long term

1722
01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:36,510
we cannot go just to take some notes

1723
01:41:44,690 --> 01:41:40,290
about what they saw and that's it we

1724
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:44,700
need to like to keep investigating those

1725
01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:48,570
cases and see what happens after those

1726
01:41:57,320 --> 01:41:52,410
encounters because somehow the magic

1727
01:42:02,390 --> 01:41:57,330
happens after those encounter not before

1728
01:42:06,020 --> 01:42:02,400
nor in in in the moment of the encounter

1729
01:42:10,610 --> 01:42:06,030
because this phenomenon deals

1730
01:42:13,250 --> 01:42:10,620
with the conscious so in some way they

1731
01:42:15,830 --> 01:42:13,260
will not be the same as before the

1732
01:42:17,930 --> 01:42:15,840
encounter so it's really important to

1733
01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:17,940
keep doing some research

1734
01:42:25,430 --> 01:42:22,410
after those contacts and and and Jacques

1735
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:25,440
in closing I wanted to ask you how

1736
01:42:33,980 --> 01:42:29,850
important is it to have not only fresh

1737
01:42:38,870 --> 01:42:33,990
faces but a fresh way of looking at this

1738
01:42:43,250 --> 01:42:38,880
phenomenon with a filmmaker like Allen

1739
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:43,260
who isn't isn't tainted right he's got

1740
01:42:49,700 --> 01:42:46,890
another way to approach this we need

1741
01:42:54,940 --> 01:42:49,710
this in the UFO community don't we well

1742
01:42:58,280 --> 01:42:54,950
I see that you know at my advanced age I

1743
01:43:01,940 --> 01:42:58,290
think that's the the last contribution I

1744
01:43:06,440 --> 01:43:01,950
can make is to transmit some of that

1745
01:43:08,930 --> 01:43:06,450
both the data and also they you know the

1746
01:43:13,180 --> 01:43:08,940
the understanding or the methodology

1747
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:13,190
that we can use around the data and and

1748
01:43:19,870 --> 01:43:17,010
fortunately there are you know younger

1749
01:43:22,100 --> 01:43:19,880
people coming into the field with

1750
01:43:26,030 --> 01:43:22,110
equipped with different resources

1751
01:43:28,780 --> 01:43:26,040
different tools in the case of Allen

1752
01:43:33,940 --> 01:43:28,790
it's his camera and his knowledge of

1753
01:43:37,150 --> 01:43:33,950
cinema and his artistic training and

1754
01:43:41,060 --> 01:43:37,160
there are others you know doctors and

1755
01:43:45,020 --> 01:43:41,070
physicists and psychologists and so on I

1756
01:43:50,540 --> 01:43:45,030
think that it's very important for my

1757
01:43:54,140 --> 01:43:50,550
generation to to transmit that and let

1758
01:43:57,890 --> 01:43:54,150
let others take it forward and I want

1759
01:44:00,020 --> 01:43:57,900
what type I'm devoting time to right now

1760
01:44:02,390 --> 01:44:00,030
yeah I want to thank you for that Jacque

1761
01:44:05,180 --> 01:44:02,400
and I'm being very serious on behalf of

1762
01:44:09,020 --> 01:44:05,190
the community everything that you have

1763
01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:09,030
not only contributed to but the way that

1764
01:44:13,100 --> 01:44:11,250
you continue to move all of this forward

1765
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:13,110
on behalf the community I want to thank

1766
01:44:21,270 --> 01:44:17,920
you for for your commitment and Allen

1767
01:44:26,010 --> 01:44:21,280
I've got to say are you prepared are you

1768
01:44:29,370 --> 01:44:26,020
prepared for the questions and and what

1769
01:44:33,870 --> 01:44:29,380
this this movie is about to do are you

1770
01:44:42,060 --> 01:44:33,880
prepared for this I have to say no

1771
01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:42,070
honestly I'm really I'm eager to see

1772
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:45,250
what the the audience will say about the

1773
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:47,290
movie about what the American audience

1774
01:44:53,250 --> 01:44:50,650
will will receive because I know that

1775
01:44:56,310 --> 01:44:53,260
most of the documentaries and movies

1776
01:44:59,280 --> 01:44:56,320
about this phenomenon are quite

1777
01:45:03,209 --> 01:44:59,290
different from from our movie our

1778
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:03,219
message because in a simple way we only

1779
01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:06,730
focus on the human aspect is for and for

1780
01:45:13,439 --> 01:45:08,650
me it's one of the most important

1781
01:45:17,850 --> 01:45:13,449
aspects of of this phenomenon but I'm

1782
01:45:20,580 --> 01:45:17,860
I'm really really eager to see what will

1783
01:45:23,580 --> 01:45:20,590
happen with with the reactions and with

1784
01:45:26,419 --> 01:45:23,590
all the feedback congratulations

1785
01:45:29,850 --> 01:45:26,429
the film is extraordinary and again

1786
01:45:31,890 --> 01:45:29,860
October 22nd is the worldwide release

1787
01:45:34,890 --> 01:45:31,900
all the links are over at Jimmy Church

1788
01:45:39,060 --> 01:45:34,900
radio calm Jacque Allen thank you so

1789
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:39,070
much thank you thank you very much we'll

1790
01:45:45,300 --> 01:45:43,090
speak soon thank you Jacques Vallee

1791
01:45:47,130 --> 01:45:45,310
Allen snivel Minh and I can't say it

1792
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:47,140
enough the links are over at Jimmy

1793
01:45:52,740 --> 01:45:50,410
Church radio.com the worldwide release

1794
01:45:55,140 --> 01:45:52,750
is October 22nd

1795
01:45:56,520 --> 01:45:55,150
this is fade to black I'm gonna take a

1796
01:45:59,520 --> 01:45:56,530
quick break I'm going to come back and

1797
01:46:01,620 --> 01:45:59,530
open up the phone lines and I want to

1798
01:46:03,900 --> 01:46:01,630
get everybody's reaction out of this

1799
01:46:05,220 --> 01:46:03,910
amazing conversation tonight Thank You

1800
01:46:06,870 --> 01:46:05,230
Josh Thank You Allen

1801
01:46:08,220 --> 01:46:06,880
I'm real Jimmy church this is fade to

1802
01:46:08,980 --> 01:46:08,230
black I'll be right back up to this